Mailtda's non-commercial use clause, was: Re: [matilda] crisisof consensus

[Joe Morris]

Dougald>Joe, I know that you and I share an admiration for Marx - but it 
seems
Dougald>to me a strange reading of him that makes it wrong for those who
Dougald>labour to receive money for it.

People who have to sell their labour for money would be called EXPLOITED.

If someone wants to sell their labour then they can do that.
But they DON'T have to do it and that is right. Matilda should
be a space in which alternatives to wage-labour exist, not
one where it is encouraged. People shouldn't have to, and ultimately
don't have to sell their labour and that should be our message within the 
space.

Dougald>The evil of capitalism (according to 'Capital') is that those who
Dougald>produce things are screwed by those who produce nothing - the wages
Dougald>they receive are less than the value they produce, and the 
difference
Dougald>goes to fat factory owners who don't have to work because their
Dougald>ancestors robbed the workers' ancestors. When we say we're against
Dougald>"profit", this is surely what we're talking about?

Not in the context of Matilda.

Profit in this instance means that Steve wants to make money for himself
within this space to supplement his benefit. So that he will have "extra 
money"
for himself to spend. I don't mind if he wants to do that, but I do not 
think
within the context of the Matilda space, this is a viable alternative that 
makes
Matilda any better than somewhere like the Workstation, who hire space out
to companies to make money for themselves. Ok, it's different on many 
levels,
but the ethos is the same; That we can have a space, rented to a person or
whatever, who will profit from it. Not the space, nor collective, but the 
individual
etc. Do we make an exception because the State doesn't give Steve more
money than he may want/need? No. We find another way...

If Steve needs money to recoup costs for materials then we should find a way
to get those things back so he can continue being creative, but there are 
OTHER
ways to do that. If he wants to sell his art for that purpose then fine, I 
don't see
any reason why Matilda can't facilitate him being able to continue being an 
artist.

Dougald>If, by being anti-capitalist, we mean that we oppose the 
exploitation
Dougald>inherent in capitalism, then it is a bit odd to argue that, rather
Dougald>than working for less than the full value of their labour, people
Dougald>should be forced to work for nothing at all!

I don't think that's anywhere close to what I said.

I'm not saying Steve should not sell his paintings, or that he should work 
for less.
I don't care, but I was always under the impression that artists worked 
because
they loved art. Maybe that's just overwhelming naivety on my part, but no 
one
is forcing Steve to do anything he doesn't want to do.

Dougald>If - on the other hand - by being anti-capitalist, we mean that we
Dougald>oppose the existence of money full stop, we should first demonstrate
Dougald>how it is possible to live right now without money before demanding
Dougald>that others give up working for money.

I'm not demanding that anyone should not work for money. I am saying that
Matilda is not the forum in which that should happen.

Dougald>Beyond that, I think we are in more complex territory - in which it
Dougald>would be a lot better if we could all stop acting as if some other
Dougald>member of Matilda is the enemy within.

I hope that's not an implication that I somehow think Steve is my enemy.
If it is, you're wrong.

I don't see how complex this needs to be. Matilda is an experiment in 
creating
alternatives. Having a job surely is not an alternative? If Matilda is such 
an experiment
where we come together collectively to find means of organisation which 
reflect
our desires for a future society then why are we encouraging people to
participate and actively create, within the space, the fundamental basis of 
class division
and capitalist control?..Work. Buyer and consumer.

It makes no sense.

Joe

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