[Ssf] Fallujah: murder televised on TV

Sun Nov 14 23:28:07 GMT 2004

>"Can't say I am innocent of trying to be 'more radical
>than thou' but dismissal of ideas outside the 'mainstream' of the movement,
>whether direct action or paper cranes or marches from A to B, is not right.
>Different strokes for different folks as it were."

  Couldnt agree more, been on many a march in my short life but unfortunatly 
with regard to the war they didnt make a big enough difference and therefore 
different tactics are nessasary.  In some circumstances they are usefull 
e.g. with the incinerator, where it would be usefull to raise public 
awareness of it but the war is all over the news every single day and 
raising public awareness is unnesasary.  To me the gulf between 
marches/public meetings and direct action is in someways huge and other ways 
an inevitability, one is complaining about somthing (which is very 
demoralising) and the other is doing somthing about it which is the 
inevitable next step if someone feels strongly enough about it (and it is 
very empowering).

for now
cuthbert

>From: "Jase" <spodulike at freeuk.com>
>To: <ssf at lists.aktivix.org>, 
><sheffield-anti-war-coalition at yahoogroups.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: [Ssf] Fallujah: murder televised on TV
>Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 00:41:12 -0000
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "noone noone" <machinevman at hotmail.com>
>hi jase
>   I never wanted to bash the stw group but i just felt that it was 
>relevent
>to express my experiences while i was participating in it and explaining 
>why
>i feel that particular avenue is blocked.  Somehow i bet that if i 
>suggested
>direct action it would be turned down or ridiculed _again_ in favour of a
>formulaic public meeting.
>
>from
>cuthbert
>-----------
>
>I agree STW has it's problems and many people's experiences are negative. I
>think many people have come into the movement and found left wing groups
>sitting there, ideology and political methodology already formed like a 
>tank
>of people trundling on. People can be dismissive of different ideas, I
>remember someone in the early stop the war meetings (of about 150 people at
>the centre for the blind - that *was* a movement) suggesting making paper
>cranes to send to Blair (which has been done elsewhere) and nearly being
>laughed out of the hall. Can't say I am innocent of trying to be 'more 
>radical
>than thou' but dismissal of ideas outside the 'mainstream' of the movement,
>whether direct action or paper cranes or marches from A to B, is not right.
>Different strokes for different folks as it were.
>
>It is the primary reason why SSF needs to remain an open space because 
>there
>will always be people coming in from the world outside politics and 
>activism,
>as wide eyed as Neo looking at the Matrix with new eyes. I often forget how
>far I have come, from the world of the Sun and football and changing 
>channel
>when the news comes on, to looking on the back of Rose's lime cordial and
>finding it's made by coca-cola, and then not buying it! (dammit dammit 
>dammit
>did like that stuff:). It is difficult to relate to THE ACTIVIST who has 
>found
>THE TRUTH when wanting to work out how and why and what do I believe and so
>on. I felt pretty intimidated on joining the movement, mainly because 
>talking
>about politics was so alien and others seemed to know everything whilst I 
>just
>had a general idea things needed to change. There needs to be acceptance of
>views from all over and the fact that whether people are more or less 
>radical
>or more or less right, it is their intention that matters.
>
>Copying STW into this again as didn't realise it was on both first time 
>off.
>Love to you all as well:)
>
>Jason
>
>"Hope is not the expectation that things will turn out successfully, but 
>the
>conviction that something is worth working for, however it turns out" - 
>Vaclev
>Havel.
>
> >From: spodulike at freeuk.com
> >Reply-To: spodulike at freeuk.com
> >To: ssf at lists.aktivix.org
> >Subject: Re: [Ssf] Fallujah: murder televised on TV
> >Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 19:15:15 +0000
> >
> >Cuthbert>   The only real option is direct action which has
> >unfortunatly been effectively condemned by the stop the war coalition.
> >
> >[rant]Have to say I'm getting a little tired of all the STW bashing
> >around and abouts. The SWP (and some other members of this politico
> >group or that, but not all thankfully) believe that direct action is
> >not going to get the masses along, they are after all a political group
> >and thus compromise for political gain. They quite happily block roads (
> >which accomplishes bugger all in my view) when they feel the 'time is
> >right'. In Shef and nationally SWP have usually had the majority in the
> >movement (tho' often in Shef only by one or two people) which has led
> >to the feeling this is 'just the way STW is', which is not the case. If
> >people don't like STW as it is then they could come along and change
> >the movement, or if they don't fancy the stress, form another one (as
> >suggested I think). But the main problem is that the numbers of people
> >who turn out for anything tend to be small. There was an idea for a 24
> >hour vigil which I liked, but who will turn up? Alison proposed we
> >argue for walk outs from work, but who will get involved? (based on the
> >last time we asked for walk outs not a lot). So rather than bashing STW
> >or SWP or anyone else who at least *tries* I would suggest people bash
> >all the lazy f********QW"£E$ who sit on their arse sucking up the
> >comfortable lifestyle given to them and who would never work towards a
> >better world because they are too busy stuffing their face with the
> >blood and tears of their fellow humanity [/rant].
> >
> >There was Grass Roots Opposed to War which was planned as a direct
> >action group, but think that folded cos of lack of interest (atw?). The
> >social forum could of course spin off a peace/anti-war group. The
> >strength of the social forum model is no need for the majority voting '
> >united front' led from London type thing - just what people want to do.
> >Even if an action just makes one person thinks about the world in a way
> >they haven't before then it's worth it (that's what I keep telling
> >myself anyways:) so small groups are not the problem, all protest is
> >good, it just won't be the mass movement most on the 'left' want.
> >
> >On another point, whats the "Peace in Troubled Time" thing about Dan?
> >Have not heard about it.
> >
> >Cheers and love to you all,
> >
> >Jason
> >_______________________________________________
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> >Ssf at lists.aktivix.org
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