[Anarchafeminists] [project2012] May2nd Fem Manifesto Fwd: Family / Sex Work etc

Mon May 3 13:36:39 UTC 2010

hi lindsey, et al

aswell as chris's below, here's another comment on the topic sent off list
and (for others interest / info) mine imbetween, on family which as you know
i think is the key here.

hope to see you soon - pls let us know when next fem manifesto meeting is
taking place and the outcomes of sunday's meeting.

and also please spread the word about the democracy village..

cheers

mark

ps jasper - in response  to your question the debate came out of an exchange
between myself, chris knight and lindsey german, and is (i hope) in the
interest  of 'building a revolutionary centre' to bridge the seeming divides
on the left. talking of which - let's all meet on may 6th at tea time in
parliament square if not at the village campsite before then! make tea not
war ;-)

xXX: "sorry to butt in on this but I have been thinking a lot about
prostitution. It strikes me we need to take a much more careful approach to
the subject in that it is not possible to talk about sex work in one breath
since it encompasses trafficked and imprisoned people,  rape, people forced
into it by financial needs, drug related needs and right through to some
people who do it occasionally because" the money is good". So we  cannot
discuss the issues in one breath."

Hi Lindsey

Thanks for the message with thoughtful response, much appreciated.

One thing from my side which would be great to broach, leading out of these
points about extending the concept of family and into the linked domain of
how to achieve (and therefore where to start for) a truly community  (rather
than private family / hyper individualised) centred political economy. For
me this basically is a question about the future of democracy, so we need a
shared vision about that contested term and towards which the struggle for
feminism and socialism needs to be placed.

So we need to be working towards some kind of call or revolutionary centre
that can unite the feminist vision with the socialist one, and also with for
example the right to work / green jobs, enlightened schooling, equality in
the constitution etc. basically in such a way that a reinvention of
community can actually take place.

On that note, have you heard the call for a movement based on Peoples'
Assemblies which an increasing number of groups are now appear to be
advocating? Family being, ultimately about the others in your neighbourhood
(we need to go beyond blood ties and show it) but also of course worldwide
at the same time. Could now be the time to start something like this in the
UK?

Happy to know what you think, and would be great if some of these ideas
could be on the agenda ..
Best wishes

Mark

On 3 May 2010 08:50, Chris Knight <governmentofthedead at googlemail.com>wrote:

> I am sorry if I have sounded a little sharp on this issue. Apologies
> especially to Lindsey. But I still feel neither of you are getting it.
> Let me quote Marx word for word: 'Prostitution is only a specific form
> of the universal prostitution of the worker.' So OF COURSE WE ARE
> AMBIVALENT ABOUT PROSTITUTION! WE ARE AMBIVALENT ABOUT WAGE-SLAVERY IN
> GENERAL! The goal of trade union organisation is a limited one: it
> means fighting for better conditions of work for people who are
> prostitutes (of one kind or another). Naturally, it would be better to
> abolish wage-slavery (including prostitution) altogether.
>
> The question is whether the emancipation of the working class is the
> task of the working class itself. If you think it is, then clearly
> trade union rights for prostitutes (as for other wage-slaves) is a
> first step and an absolutely necessary one.
>
> Lindsey, you say: "Of course people have rights but is it what people
> should have to do in an unalienated and free society? Should our
> highest aspiration be the unionisation of prostitutes or is there (as
> Engels said ) the need for a society where women - and men for that
> matter - don't need to sell their bodies?".
>
> So let me translate. Of course workers have have rights but is
> wage-slavery what people should have to do in an unalienated and free
> society? Should our highest aspiration be the unionisation of
> wage-slaves - or is there (as Engels said ) the need for a society
> where people don't need to hire out their bodies at all?
>
> I often hear people mutter under their breathe: 'You should only do it
> for love'. A very good idea. But why pick on sex-workers? Why lecture
> to them that they should only do it for love? How many people in other
> fields of work 'only do it for love? Most people hire out their bodies
> day after day week after week to pay the rent, pay for the shopping
> etc. Once we've abolished wage-slavery, I am sure all work will be
> done for love. Good idea. Meanwhile, though, let's not get too
> moralistic  about sexwork. I would have thought banking was just as
> immoral, yet don't we let bank-workers join trade unions! Workers in
> the arms industry too. Or do we say they are 'not really workers',
> just 'victims of the system'? That would be patronising nonsense,
> obviously. Let's show one another some elementary solidarity,
> regardless of which PARTICULAR KIND OF PROSTITUTION each of us happens
> to have been forced into by the system.
>
> By the way, just in case anyone is interested, I wrote a whole book on
> this subject. It's called 'Blood Relations: Menstruation and the
> origins of culture' (Yale University Press 1995). Most people who've
> read it say it's a very good book. It's about how our ancestors dealt
> with similar problems during the 'human revolution' which occurred in
> Africa some hundred thousand years ago. We abolished prostitution
> once. We can do it again. But it will need a revolution -- a
> repetition on a higher scale of the one in which our species was born.
> The message of my book is that language, kinship and culture emerged
> on the picket line. Now as in the distant past, everyone is welcome to
> join. No moralistic hang-ups, no elitism and no exclusions, please.
> We're all in this together.
>
> Chris
>
> On 25 April 2010 12:02, Mark Barrett <marknbarrett at googlemail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Everyone
> >
> > Some might be interested in exchange below.
> >
> > Hopefully many people will attend the May2nd event (the day after
> > coming to Meltdown!) see, for more information
> >
> http://www.counterfire.org/index.php/theory/133-counterforum/4676-public-event-a-feminist-manifesto-for-the-21st-century
> > and then we may even get some extra feminist revolutionary campers for
> > Parliament Square..
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > Hi Mark, sorry I've taken so long to get back to you. Was on holiday
> > when you wrote and it got stuck in a backlog. I tend to agree with you
> > about sex work _ of course people have rights but is it what people
> > should have to do in an unalienated and free society? Should our
> > highest aspiration be the unionisation of prostitutes or is there (as
> > Engels said ) the need for a society where women -and men for that
> > matter - don't need to sell their bodies? And you're right that the
> > privatised family is at the centre of these questions.
> >
> > We're having another feminist manifesto meeting on Sunday 2nd May 5pm
> > at SOAS room G2 if you're interested. You're very welcome.
> >
> > best,
> >
> > Lindsey
> >
> > ________________________________
> > Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 21:32:03 +0100
> > Subject: Family
> > From: marknbarrett at googlemail.com
> > To: Lindsey German
> >
> > Dear Lindsey
> >
> > Just a quick note to follow our earlier exchange via Chris Knight, by
> > saying that personally I am ambivalent about sex work.
> >
> > On the one hand people should be protected as workers, while on the
> > other for me the whole sex and porn world, like environmental
> > degradation and cruelty in general are all signs that patriarchy and
> > the moral dead end capitalist mode of production it happily co-exists
> > with still exists, its salient features being the objectification and
> > commodification of the natural world in general for the benefit of the
> > powerful few and to the disadvantage of the weak and those without the
> > power of arms / money /access to the corridors of power at their
> > disposal. The sex industry - like all the industries based on
> > exploitative power relations - should be resisted, but at the same
> > time its workers - like mother nature as a whole- protected.
> >
> > Is that too contradictory? I am still trying to work this out, I find
> > the issue immensely difficult - rather as with abortion. Perhaps the
> > two strands relate to the need for regulation and reform, but also at
> > the same time social revolution otherwise we end up with at best only
> > protection but no paradigmatic liberation. Which is why, for me the
> > aim of a historic break with the privatised family - interestingly
> > students at the secondary school where I work instinctively understand
> > this point when I broach it with them - is by far the most interesting
> > and potentially pivotal prospect.
> >
> > Interested to know where you are at with the Manifesto project, and
> > looking forward to being able to assist you in some way. Please do
> > keep me posted...
> >
> >
> > Best wishes
> >
> > Mark
> > www.meltodown.uk.net
> > Watch this nice video about Election
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X92f7H1vrJU
> > And Bring Pop Up Tents!!
> >
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>
>
> --
> Chris Knight
>
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-- 
"We hear men speaking for us of new laws strong and sweet /Yet is there no
man speaketh as we speak in the street.”
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