<div class="gmail_quote">--------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">Anti Thatcherites in the Conservative party are very limited in what they can do by the Thatcherites who are almost as strong there as they are in New Labour.<br><br>Should Capitalists be allowed to destroy Capitalism by continuing the misuse of Keynes theory? Or should we point out that there must be a progressive tax on all wealth to clear the National debt that Thatcher doubled when she could have eliminated it. Let them continue on the inflationary road to total ruin and chaos?<br>
<br>One thing is apparent. No Organisation is offering a workable alternative for social survival. The Government just withdrew index linked savings certificates from sale. That indicates that the Government is now aware that it is insolvent and should stop trading.<br>
<br>The present developing collapse is due to Marx's internal contradiction in Capitalism that Keynes designed his theory to circumvent. But no Government since Stafford Cripps has used the taxation side of Keynes. The present crisis is worse than the situation Cripps faced.<br>
<br>Unfortunately even a total economic collapse now will not save this Creation of Life from Mass Extinction. - send to that other list.<br><br>Ilyan
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<div></div>
<div class="h5"><br><br>On 19/07/2010 12:05, Mark Barrett wrote: </div></div>
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<div class="h5">
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<div class="gmail_quote">"It is going to be very challenging for them to play a bigger role if they have less resources to do it," said Ben Kernighan, from the National Council for Voluntary Organisations.<br><strong>David Cameron launches Tories' 'big society' plan</strong><br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10680062" target="_blank">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10680062</a><br>
<div> </div>
<div>Here is a thread from a different list on the matter. What do Diggers think?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Mark</div>
<div> </div>
<div>trouble is that people's way of life need to change if there is to be a community / local sevrice provision renaissance. And that requires a new political economy not more volunteerism or social entrepreneurship although these things have their place. It will be interesting to see how Labour responds to this. What's needed, IMV is an acceptance of the ideal of a Social Revolution (ie A Big Society) but then a challenging critique of the Tory approach which brings into the square new ideas in relation to taxation, banking, education, constitution and other areas. This will require a new embrace of Clause 4, albeit in different form to genuinely empower (with real sovereignty, redistributed monies and a requirement for horizontal democratic constitution at the neaighbourhood level). Some of the ideas of Tories can be taken forward eg Your Square Mile, perhaps. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Hopefully by such a path Labour can re-occupy the centre ground. However I do not think they are capable of such thinking with the current crop of prospective leaders, without a new injection of ideas and possibly without a social movement that pushes them in that direction. I certainly don't expect the Tories to go far with this, due mainly to the reasons you've identified regarding lifestyles, time poverty etc. What's needed is a genuine politics of emancipation linked to a renaissance of civil society. I am ambivalent about these concepts being promoted as it may help people to consider how different things could be, spark debate etc and maybe Labour or the social movements can position themselves in order to take it further once the central ground is established. However I also fear the ideas get polluted, abused and discarded by serious minded people / commentators once 'Red Tory' co-option has gone where it can with them and failed. Overall however I am optimistic as people are increasingly aware of the links between our broken community fabric and the democratic deficit, environmental challenge, limitation of the state and private cos to provide public goods that only communities can deliver, atomism and mental health, shallow consumerist / celebrity culture etc. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Lots to say but no time. Jyoti, thanks for raising the issue however what do others think?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Mark</div>
<div><br> </div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 19 July 2010 11:03, jyoti <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sitavana@googlemail.com" target="_blank">sitavana@googlemail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid" class="gmail_quote">
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<div><br><br>;-)<span> </span></div>
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<div><br>On 19 Jul 2010, at 01:31, jyoti <<a href="mailto:sitavana@googlemail.com" target="_blank">sitavana@googlemail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div>
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<div>hi mark</div>
<div> </div>
<div>yeah well who knows, the devil will be in the detail, but it is the central plank of his vision, and lots of powers will be devolved down to local and parish councils, Eric Pickles, who hails from local government originally and is influential, isn't too keen on the <span style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">l</span><span style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><span>a</span><span>y</span><span>e</span><span>r</span><span> </span><span>o</span><span>f</span><span> </span><span>l</span><span>o</span><span>c</span><span>a</span><span>l</span><span> </span><span>g</span><span>o</span><span>v</span><span>e</span><span>r</span><span>n</span><span>m</span><span>e</span><span>n</span><span>t</span><span> </span><span>a</span><span>b</span><span>o</span><span>u</span><span>t</span><span> </span><span>p</span><span>a</span><span>r</span><span>i</span><span>s</span><span>h</span><span> </span><span>l</span><span>e</span><span>v</span><span>e</span><span>l</span><span>.</span><span> </span></span></div>
<div>i think the key will be the financial settlement, how much dosh comes down, but this guy was saying basically they will want parish and local councils to run programs/projects and they will get say a 10% slice but that willl only have a 3 - 5 lifetime. we need strucrural change. (see telegraph article embedded below Ed Millibands comment sums up the cynical position, but let's wait and see: <span style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 16px">“Cameron’s government is cynically attempting to dignify its cuts agenda by dressing up the withdrawal of support with the language of reinvigorating civic society.”)</span></div>
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<div>also will people suddenly start volunteering and engaging with the democratic process locally. most parish councils struggle to get people, and when people finish a long day at work, cook a meal, childcare, housework, there isn't much time and energy left. its not like the 50s when there were a pool of stay at home mums and ladys who lunch to call on.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>the challenge for them and us is how do we sex community engagement up, make it exciting?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>my tuppence worth</div></div></blockquote></span></blockquote></span>
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<div style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From thevSunday Telegraph yesterday: </div>
<div style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold"><span>Snip </span></div>
<div style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold"><span>Cameron launches his Big Society</span><br></div>
<div>
<div>Sun, 18 Jul 2010 22:05:23 +0100</div>
<div style="COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">David Cameron launches his Big Society</div>
<div>Local communities will get the power and money to run bus services, set up broadband internet networks and take over neighbourhood recycling schemes under a mass transfer of power from the state to the people, David Cameron will announce on Monday.</div>
<img alt="David Cameron launches his Big Society" width="300" height="187">
<div style="FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">David Cameron launches his Big Society</div>
<p>In his first major speech on the theme of the “Big Society” since winning the election, the Prime Minister will announce the “biggest redistribution of power from elites in Whitehall to the man and woman on the street”.</p>
<p>Mr Cameron - who is keen to present his administration as offering optimistics new policies that are not just about cuts - will say that the “liberation” of volunteers and activists to help their own communities is the vision which drives his premiership.</p>
<p>As part of his drive to roll back the reach of the public sector, the Prime Minister will attack the previous Labour government for turning state employees into “disillusioned, weary puppets” and communities into “dull, soulless clones”.</p>
<p>He will announce that four areas in diverse parts of the country have been chosen to form a “vanguard” in realising his dream of “people power” in which individuals rather than the state come together voluntarily to solve their problems.</p>
<p>The four – the greater London borough of Sutton and Cheam, the leafy Berkshire council of Windsor and Maidenhead, rural Eden Valley in Penrith, Cumbria (MP Rory Stewart) and the metropolitan city of Liverpool - were chosen after they petitioned Downing Street to start their own projects.</p>
<p>They will be the first to be invited to submit applications to the Big Society Bank, a fund which will allocate the proceeds of dormant bank accounts worth hundreds of millions of pounds to help set up volunteer schemes to improve communities.</p>
<p>Snip</p>
<p>Snip<span></span></p>
<p><span>But Mr Cameron hopes that putting flesh on the bones of his vision will persuade critics that it can be shared by millions of ordinary Britons who care about their community and are tired of having so many aspects of their life dictated from the centre</span></p>
<p>The four pioneer communities will be helped by dedicated civil servants who will give expert advice if they encounter legal problems or bureaucratic obstacles.</p>
<p>Officials will also identify local residents with a particular aptitude for taking part in Big Society projects – they will then receive training to become community organisers, motivating their neighbours to take part in action schemes.</p>
<p>They will also be able to draw on the Big Society Bank, which, Mr Cameron promised, would use “every penny of dormant bank and building society account money” to help finance social enterprises, charities and voluntary groups.</p>
<p>Accounts left untouched for at least 15 years will be channelled to good causes. Over time, Mr Cameron said, the Bank would provide “hundreds of millions of pounds” to Big Society projects, with money starting to be distributed from April.</p>
<p>Snip</p>
<p>“This process is all about learning. It’s about pushing power down and seeing what happens.</p>
<p>“It’s about unearthing the problems as they come up on the <span> Labour leadership contender, claimed that the Big Society was a means of enabling the Government to cut vital public services.</span></p>
<p>He said: “Cameron’s government is cynically attempting to dignify its cuts agenda by dressing up the withdrawal of support with the language of reinvigorating civic society.”</p>
<p>Snip </p></div></span></blockquote></span>
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<div><br></div>
<div>--<br>"simply asking questions that draw the attention to areas where strong assumptions rule, or to where the blind spots are"<br> <br><br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 18 July 2010 09:26, Mark Barrett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:marknbarrett@googlemail.com" target="_blank">marknbarrett@googlemail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid" class="gmail_quote">Hi Jyoti Thanks for posting this. What is your view on the Big Society<br>agenda? A convenient if well meaning front for cuts or something<br>
potentially more substantial? Is there any meat in it, do you think it<br>will work in any meaningful, transformative sense? Mark<br><br>On 18/07/2010, jyoti <<a href="mailto:sitavana@googlemail.com" target="_blank">sitavana@googlemail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Today we had a short talk from the head of the Local Government Assoc. (LGA)<br>> who has an inside track to Cameron's thinking on 'Big Soceity'; still very<br>> much in the running and essential really to balance the 25% cuts to services<br>
> with volunteers and private company outsourcing, ‘society vs state’; the<br>> 'Big Soceity' agenda has now been outsourced to a social enterprise: the Big<br>> Society Network <<a href="http://www.thebigsociety.co.uk/idea.html" target="_blank">http://www.thebigsociety.co.uk/idea.html</a>>, see the press<br>
> release from last Wednesday:<br>><br>>> 'An introduction of the Big Society Network<br>>> Last night (13/07/10) David Cameron hosted a great event to help introduce<br>>> the Big Society Network. We are delighted that dozens of social<br>
>> entrepreneurs, voluntary sector organizations and other partners were able<br>>> to join. If you are interested in getting in touch with the Network,<br>>> please<br>>> register on our site,<br>
>><br>> or contact Steve Moore at 078705 15025.'<br>>> We've put together a brief press release here .<br>>> <a href="http://www.thebigsociety.co.uk/pdfs/100713_Press_Release_.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.thebigsociety.co.uk/pdfs/100713_Press_Release_.pdf</a><br>
><br>><br>> Surfing the zeitgeist it continues to focus on the decentralising and<br>> localism agenda by talking about 'Your Square<br>> Mile<<a href="http://www.thebigsociety.co.uk/square-mile.html" target="_blank">http://www.thebigsociety.co.uk/square-mile.html</a>>',<br>
> Total Place <<a href="http://www.localleadership.gov.uk/totalplace/" target="_blank">http://www.localleadership.gov.uk/totalplace/</a>> (a kind<br>> of balanced ecology approach to services); LGA picked up this thread by<br>
> talking about 'decision<br>> miles<<a href="http://www.lga.gov.uk/lga/core/page.do?pageId=12326004" target="_blank">http://www.lga.gov.uk/lga/core/page.do?pageId=12326004</a>>'<br>> (think 'food miles' <<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_miles" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_miles</a>>) its all about<br>
> community power, devolving planning down: the Decentralisation & Localism<br>> Bill will implement many of the proposals in the Tories' Control<br>> Shift<<a href="http://centreforcities.typepad.com/centre_for_cities/2009/02/tories-plan-radical-power-shift.html" target="_blank">http://centreforcities.typepad.com/centre_for_cities/2009/02/tories-plan-radical-power-shift.html</a>>,<br>
> Housing <<a href="http://www.conservatives.com/Policy/Where_we_stand/Housing.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.conservatives.com/Policy/Where_we_stand/Housing.aspx</a>>and<br>> Open<br>> Source<<a href="http://centreforcities.typepad.com/centre_for_cities/2010/02/radical-reboot-of-planning.html" target="_blank">http://centreforcities.typepad.com/centre_for_cities/2010/02/radical-reboot-of-planning.html</a>>Planning<br>
> green papers returning<br>> power to local communities and setting sets out how the Tories would shift<br>> power from the centre to local people and councils, leaving behind the old<br>> Thatcher 'Bugger Soceity' model behind for a shiny Philip Blond 'Red<br>
> Tory'<<a href="http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/2009/02/riseoftheredtories/" target="_blank">http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/2009/02/riseoftheredtories/</a>>new<br>> model army. Cameron<br>> has earmarked a cool £300 million for Youth Engagement.<br>
><br>> Interestingly the LGA parliamentary track has trouble getting MP's on board<br>> this year however they are clamouring to get in, including the quite<br>> remarkable Rory Stewart <<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rory_Stewart" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rory_Stewart</a>>...<br>
> "Stewart seems to be living one of the most remarkable lives on record."<br>> *The<br>> New York Times.*<br>><br><font color="#888888"><br><br>--<br>"We hear men speaking for us of new laws strong and sweet /Yet is<br>
there no man speaketh as we speak in the street.”<br></font></blockquote>
<div><span style="COLOR: rgb(136,136,136)"><br></span></div></div></div></blockquote></span></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br></div></div>-- <br>
<div>
<div>"We hear men speaking for us of new laws strong and sweet /Yet is there no man speaketh as we speak in the street.” <br></div></div></div><font color="#888888"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>"We hear men speaking for us of new laws strong and sweet /Yet is there no man speaketh as we speak in the street.” <br>
</font></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>"We hear men speaking for us of new laws strong and sweet /Yet is there no man speaketh as we speak in the street.” <br></div></div></div>
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<br>The list was originally concerned with the 350th anniversary of The Diggers (& still is concerned with their history). The Diggers appeared at the end of the English Civil war with a noble mission to make the earth 'a common treasury for all'. In the spring of 1999 there were celebrations to remember the Diggers vision and their contribution. <br>
<br>TASH FROM THE HILL<br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWk9rRJsk5I" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWk9rRJsk5I</a><br><br>THE LAND MAGAZINE<br>Simon Fairlie still produces The Land magazine every 6 months or so. <br>
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<div style="MIN-HEIGHT: 0pt; COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)">__,_._,___</div></blockquote></div></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>"We hear men speaking for us of new laws strong and sweet /Yet is there no man speaketh as we speak in the street.” <br>