<div>To take the Democracy Statement forward, shall we:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>- say next Friday 20th will definitely be a GA on Democracy</div>
<div>- put up on the Forum a new version of the statement based on what we have come up with so far [ including the excellent comments on this thread and anything that comes up at tonight's GA (if indeed it gets discussed) ]</div>
<div>- make a cut-off date for comments on statement say Tues PM </div>
<div>- hold a democracy WG meeting on Wed ot Thurs eve </div>
<div>- giving the WG time to prepare to take the statement to the GA with any various amendment options for GA to consider</div>
<div> </div>
<div>It is more than philosophy Inka. It is political, strategic and potentially of real significance </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Mark <br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 13 January 2012 15:14, Shimri <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:shimriz@gmail.com">shimriz@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">Hi everyone, I can't come tonight, but I have massive problems with the wording right now, and feel I must veto at it's current form (first time I ever veto something that goes to the GA):
<div><br></div>
<div>1. I think it cannot talk about 'assemblies' as the only, utopian, 'what is needed' - it is definitely part of what is needed, but referendums are another model, and electronic democracy (like what is developed in occupy right now) are also models. </div>
<div>
<div><br></div>
<div>In some parts of the world (for example in situations of apartheid, or occupation, like where I am from - Palestine/Israel), even a transition to liberal parliamentary state democracy that include everyone and not just one ethnic group is part of 'what is needed'. </div>
<div><br></div>
<div>2. Another massive problem is that you talk about <b><u>national </u></b>parliamentary systems, but do not make that explicit. There are people in the camp (me for example) and on our side (George Monbiot, Richard Falk, for example) that think that trans-national parliaments will be something very different, substantially. </div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I would therefore suggest to amend the first sentence in the following way, to read: </div>
<div><br></div></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 40px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:0px">
<div>
<div>"The crisis of the system opens the way for all of us to be co-creators of our future, not its victims.<font color="#ff0000"> We support </font>participatory democratic alternatives to a <font color="#ff0000">national </font>parliamentary system that has been compromised by corporate and financial interests. </div>
</div></blockquote>
<div>
<div><br></div>
<div>3. I'd also add something about real global democracy:</div>
<div><br></div></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 40px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:0px">
<div>
<div>In order to facilitate the transition to real democracy and the liberation of the disenfranchised majority, <font color="#ff0000">and a shift from the G8 to the G-7billion, </font>we are encouraging the formation of people's assemblies in neighbourhoods, workplaces and education establishments across the country, assemblies where no one will be excluded, and where the voice and sovereignty of the people will be expressed. And we call for a day of action** in support."</div>
</div></blockquote>
<div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Love and solidarity</div>
<div>Shimri</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div class="h5">On 13 January 2012 07:41, Mark Barrett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:marknbarrett@googlemail.com" target="_blank">marknbarrett@googlemail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_quote">Hey Everyone!</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>This is a reminder that tonight's General Assembly (7pm St Pauls) is scheduled to be on the subject of democracy.<br><br>Aswell as an update from our WG, it's been suggested the GA re-considers the earlier democracy statement. The earlier statement is as follows, amended to reflect the main objections of the earlier GA:</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><strong>Proposed Statement on Real Democracy</strong><br><br>"The crisis of the system opens the way for all of us to be co-creators of our future, not its victims. What is needed are participatory democratic alternatives to a parliamentary system that has been compromised by corporate and financial interests. In order to facilitate the transition to real democracy and the liberation of the disenfranchised majority, we are encouraging the formation of people's assemblies in neighbourhoods, workplaces and education establishments across the country, assemblies where no one will be excluded, and where the voice and sovereignty of the people will be expressed. And we call for a day of action** in support."<br>
<br>** A river march to, and day of events at St Mary's Church / Putney, scene of the famous 1647 constitution debates is being proposed.<br><br>------------</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">Apologies if I don't make tonight (am hoping to) but as long as some of you do and sure it will be a good discussion! </div>
<div class="gmail_quote"> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">You can read the rest of the info on the WG prior to last Tues meeting at
<div class="gmail_quote"><a href="http://www.occupyforum.org.uk/showthread.php?95-Next-Steps-as-at-30-Nov" target="_blank">http://www.occupyforum.org.uk/showthread.php?95-Next-Steps-as-at-30-Nov</a> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote"> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">And please don't forget to add your comments to Paul's working draft critique document, by latest Saturday evening. Place to do so is here: <a href="http://www.occupyforum.org.uk/showthread.php?373-Critique-of-the-Parliamentary-Democracy-State" target="_blank">http://www.occupyforum.org.uk/showthread.php?373-Critique-of-the-Parliamentary-Democracy-State</a></div>
<div class="gmail_quote"> </div></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">Cheers!</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">Mark</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">PS
<div class="gmail_quote">If you'd like to participate in planning the Putney event, please email me off-list.</div></div></div></div><span><font color="#888888">
<div class="gmail_quote"> </div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<table style="MARGIN:0px auto;WIDTH:571px;FONT-SIZE:10pt" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="571">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="PADDING-BOTTOM:10px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;PADDING-TOP:10px"><font style="FONT-SIZE:10pt" color="#666666" size="1" face="Verdana">
<center>
<p style="TEXT-ALIGN:center;MARGIN:0px 0px 5px;FONT-FAMILY:verdana,arial,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:8pt"><span style="COLOR:rgb(153,153,153);FONT-SIZE:0.8em">-- <br><br>Friendly reminder: please keep these mailing list discussions to a minimum as they reach a lot of people. Instead you can email working groups and individuals directly, or use the Occupy London forum at </span><a style="COLOR:#00f" href="http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1rf44-xrrj-1m8psq3gx3?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.occupylondon.info%2F" target="_blank"><span style="COLOR:rgb(153,153,153);FONT-SIZE:0.8em">occupylondon<span style="WHITE-SPACE:nowrap;FONT-SIZE:2px"> </span>.<span style="WHITE-SPACE:nowrap;FONT-SIZE:2px"> </span>info</span></a><span style="COLOR:rgb(153,153,153);FONT-SIZE:0.8em"><br>
<br>You receive this email as a member of the </span><a style="COLOR:#00f" href="http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1rf44-xrrj-1m8psq3gx3?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715" target="_blank"><span style="COLOR:rgb(153,153,153);FONT-SIZE:0.8em">Occupy London Groupspace</span></a><span style="COLOR:rgb(153,153,153);FONT-SIZE:0.8em">. Manage </span><a style="COLOR:#00f" href="http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1rf44-xrrj-1m8psq3gx3?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2Fmy%2Faccount%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715" target="_blank"><span style="COLOR:rgb(153,153,153);FONT-SIZE:0.8em">your group membership</span></a><span style="COLOR:rgb(153,153,153);FONT-SIZE:0.8em"> or </span><a style="COLOR:#00f" href="http://e.groupspaces.com/click/1rf44-xrrj-1m8psq3gx3?u=http%3A%2F%2Fgroupspaces.com%2FOccupyLondon%2Funsubscribe%2F%3Futm_medium%3Demail%26utm_source%3Dgroup-listmail%26utm_term%3Dgroup-listmail-64715" target="_blank"><span style="COLOR:rgb(153,153,153);FONT-SIZE:0.8em">unsubscribe</span></a><span style="COLOR:rgb(153,153,153);FONT-SIZE:0.8em">.</span></p>
</center></font></td></tr></tbody></table></font></span></font></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Apathy is Dead ! <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarider/5254770064/#/photos/solarider/5254770064/lightbox/" target="_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/solarider/5254770064/#/photos/solarider/5254770064/lightbox/</a><br>
<br>