hello,<br><br>one thing that came up at the media debrief on monday was that communication is great, and i think that improving communication between the different branches of the media team is really useful. so i think it makes sense for this discussion to happen either here or on crabgrass: <br>
<br>For those who dont know there is a crabgrass subgroup now set up for climate camp tv withint the Media Team crabgrass. it's at:<br><a href="https://we.riseup.net/cc_media+cctv">https://we.riseup.net/cc_media+cctv</a><br>
<br>As for the older documenting crabgrass group, there is usually a "destroy group" button on the main page of the group. i cant see one, so probably the person who set it up altered the settings so that only some poeple can destroy the group, so whoever set it up should be able to do it. (someitmes it takes a couple of days for the deleted group to actually disapppear!)<br>
<br>n<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2009/9/20 richard hering <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:richard@visionon.tv">richard@visionon.tv</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Hi everyone<br><br>A few comments below on the CCTV discussion. I
should
say to start with that I feel that there are some criticisms here that
are really not fair or accurate, and that I think this could have been
handled in a better way. I confess to being mystified as to why this is
happening. I'm going to answer Rastko's comments
first, then Emily's, quite different as they are.<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="im"><div>2009/9/18 rastko novakovic <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rastko.novakovic@gmail.com" target="_blank">rastko.novakovic@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>Hey Richard,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I was unsure what the process for these decisions was and is
and I think it would be good to discuss these in a wider forum. We
still haven't sorted a CCTV list on crabgrass, so until then let's just
stick with mediateam, unless people feel spammed? Please scroll down
for replies.<br></div></blockquote></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br>That's
fine for now, as long as people don't feel spammed - I think the wiki
page that Hamish suggested is a better way of CCTV coming to decisions,
then proposing to website and mediateam.<br>
<div><div class="im"><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div> </div></blockquote>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>Rastko Novakovic wrote:<br>> Dear Campers,<br>> <br>> I'm a bit confused as to how the feed for CCTV on the main website <br>> works. At the moment it seems to be feeding <a href="http://visionon.tv/" target="_blank">visionon.tv</a>'s main page?<br>
<br></div></blockquote></div></div><div>Richard: <br></div><div class="im"><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div>No - it is feeding all videos tagged "climatecamp". </div>
</blockquote>
<br></div></div>Rastko:<br>
</div><div><div class="im"><div>I think this is not a good idea, since we might have all
sorts of stuff coming into the front page of the CC website and also it
is not the voice of CCTV. What do other people say?<br><br></div></div>Richard:
No we won't - the tag only works for videos posted within the blip
account, not videos posted in general to the web. As for the "voice of
Climate Camp TV", I don't think that it should ever speak with one
voice.<br>
<br></div><div>
<div> Richard:</div><div class="im"><div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>It is not feeding VOTV's main page at all. There is a small link
to the VOTV main page in the bottom right corner of the embed, called
"VOTV". The big link ("Climate Camp TV") goes to <a href="http://climatecamp.tv/" target="_blank">climatecamp.tv</a>. The other link on <a href="http://climatecamp.org.uk/" target="_blank">climatecamp.org.uk</a> also goes to <a href="http://climatecamp.tv/" target="_blank">climatecamp.tv</a>. </div>
</blockquote>
<br></div></div>Rastko:<br>
</div><div><div class="im"><div>Yep, it just seemed to be the case, since the first 4 videos are the same.<br><br></div></div>Richard:
They are now quite different in terms of content. During Climate Camp,
VOTV was only publishing CCTV content because of time / internet
constraints.<br>
</div><div><div class="im"><div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><br>> Underneath it reads "Watch the latest videos produced and edited on-site <br>> at the camp" which is confusing.<br><br> </div>Agreed - we need another wording (this one came from the web team, I believe) . Any suggestions? </blockquote>
</div></div><div> <br>Rastko:<br></div>
</div><div><div class="im"><div>"Watch the latest videos produced by Climate Camp TV"? <br><br></div></div>Richard:<br>See my drafts on Emily's comments.<br></div><div><div class="im"><div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>> Also, the Hazelwood video which is now <br>> on <a href="http://climatecamptv.org/" target="_blank">climatecamptv.org</a> although TOTALLY appropriate, is not a video <br>
> produced by CCTV. There is a comments page pointing to visionon, which I <br>> don't remember us discussing. <br><br>Comments are very important to have, but they were impossible to implement with the latest design of the <a href="http://climatecamp.tv/" target="_blank">climatecamp.tv</a>
site, so we just linked to the visionOntv commenting in the interim.
Actually, the visionOntv commenting is not really working yet, until we
get "rss in" in the cms and some programming work done, so I think it's
best to take this out currently. <br></div>
</blockquote>
<br></div></div>Rastko:<br>
</div><div><div class="im"><div>Cool. I think the comments can go to either an existing
address for now, or we can set something up on CCTV, but I feel it is
necessary that it is kept on the CCTV website. I feel we are already
perhaps a little distant from the MEDIA team and I don't think we
should be going even further away from CC.<br><br></div></div>Richard:<br>On the comments, see my remarks above and my further comments to Emily on the
problems of implementing this now. We have removed the link to visionOntv's comments system, as that didn't work well enough.<br></div>
<div><div class="im"><div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>> Also, what does the DONATE button do? <br> </div>That's easy. It allows people to donate to Climate Camp TV - so far we received a single donation of £20!<br></blockquote>
<br></div></div>Rastko:<br>
</div><div><div class="im"><div>I don't knock 20 quid! Just am wondering which account it
is going into and how we spend the donations, since, to my knowledge,
this hasn't been discussed at all.<br><br></div></div>Richard:<br>Your
knowledge is incomplete, Rastko. The donate button was asked for and
agreed. It is going into the visionOntv paypal account. Every donation
is tagged "climatecamp", so the money is completely separate and
accountable. The account should be accessible to whoever is doing the
accounts. Is that Lauren? How we spend it is up to CCTV as a whole, as
with all other funding, as part of our general finance discussion. I
must admit I don't understand at all the purpose of asking this small
question in this context. We need to discuss how to spend all the money
raised for CCTV at a CCTV meeting, and this matter is a very tiny part
of that discussion.<br>
</div><div class="im"><div><div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Think that answers all the questions (: It would be great to find someone to work more on the design of the site.<br>
</blockquote>
</div></div></div><div><br>Rastko:<div class="im"><div><br>I'll see what I can do.</div></div></div><div class="im"><div><div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">If anyone wants to be an admin so that they can work on the CCTV site send a message to one of these current admins<br>
> Richard Braude<br>> Mark Corbin<br>> Richard Hering<br>> Emily James<br>> San Do Kai <br>> rastko novakovic <br>> antoine S <br>> Lauren Jane Simpson <br><br>You can ask Hamish for help as well.</blockquote>
<div> </div>
</div><div>DIY is fine and dandy, but (call me a Titoist) I fear lack of coordination. Heh :) <br></div>
<div> </div>
<div>Best,</div>
</div></div><div>R<br><br>Richard: Rastko, your comment contains its own criticism , so I won't add anything!<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<font color="#888888">
</font></blockquote></div><br><br>2009/9/18 Emily James <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:emily@emily-james.com" target="_blank">emily@emily-james.com</a>></span><div class="im"><div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Now that the media team is switching over to Crabgrass, I think we
should have a CCTV space there too. But email lists still get the most
participation, and i for ne would like a bit more participation in some
of what's being discussed here.<br>
</blockquote></div></div><div> <br>Some of what's being discussed, but not
all? A bit more participation by whom? People who have had no
participation in CCTV? CCTV has to work as an affinity group that first
of all discusses things among its members. Of course we should respond
to outside suggestions on outreach matters (such as the climate camp
website), but right now all the criticisms being made are coming from
within the CCTV group, so surely we should attempt to resolve them
there before bothering other people who are very busy and may just not
be interested. This practice I find quite demotivating, actually, and
I can't see the reason for it.<br>
</div><div class="im"><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>We certainly never agreed that the feed on the climate camp home
page would carry just anything that was tagged Climate Camp, that
leaves it way too open to randomness. </blockquote><div> </div></div></div><div>One
person's randomness is another's diversity. I actually think it's good
if something changes on the site. I have changed the climate camp
website feed so that the excellent Australian videos come at the top.<br>
<br></div><div class="im"><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">In
all the discussions that I can remember, we always said that it would
carry the player from the CCTV home page. We had agreed a process for
deciding what gets promoted onto that channel, but it has never
actually been followed.<br>
</blockquote></div></div><div><br>I remember being brow-beaten by Emily over
this, but there was never any consensus, and for my part I never
understood the criteria for implementing the selection of content..<br></div><div class="im"><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>As it happens, I think that the films about the action at the coal
plant are actually the best thing to have on the home page of the
climate camp site right now </blockquote><div> </div></div></div><div>Agreed,
and I have implemented this. Btw, we have run out of interesting
studio shows from Blackheath, (there's still a few that will find their
way into "inthestudio" only!). Are there any more action films to come
in?<br>
<br></div><div class="im"><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
- but certainly not the random Kew Eco-Village piece that's at the top of the player right now.<br></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>Would it be possible to have a specific player (and tag) for films
on the Climate Camp home page? And then can we formulate, (and actually
stick to!) a process for deciding what goes on there. Films playing on
that player should need the approval of at least two or three people. <br>
</blockquote></div></div><div><br>This is much too bureaucratic, and given the variety of tastes within the group, is likely to be very fractious. I'm not <br></div><div class="im"><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>Rastko is right, the button on the bottom right of the embedded player should be to the <a href="http://climatecamp.tv/" target="_blank">climatecamp.tv</a> site, not the visionOn. </blockquote></div></div><div><br>That's
actually not what he was saying (see his last mail, above) - he thought
the embed was feeding visionOntv, rather than climatecamp tv, and now
realizes that it doesn't. He didn't mention the link in the bottom
right of the embed at all at any point. It is perfectly reasonable to
have a small link to VOTV, in the context of two much larger ones for
Climate Camp TV - visionOntv has spent two years of voluntary work
getting together the infrastructure that makes Climate Camp TV and
other such projects possible. There are still things not working fully
yet (comments being one), but we've also spent two years securing the
money that will make that programming possible. This is a very
well-worked-out project on a technical level - and that only comes with
a vast amount of hard graft. visionOntv did Climate Camp TV in 2008,
again in 2009, and will certainly be there for whatever happens in
2010. This is a painstakingly constructed project built to last, with
sustainability in the technical sense guaranteed. VOTV's user-friendly
infrastructure also enabled the very rapid building of the Climate Camp
TV website, which would otherwise have been in the hands of drupal
geeks and probably not have happened at all. If you think we don't
think respond quickly enough to problems and suggestions, try working
within that universe! This year will be when the VOTV content
management system gets fully developed and communicated to a huge range
of campaigning groups and individuals who have never had such a
resource made available to them. VOTV also provided the server for
Climate Camp TV, and continues to do so. So yes, a tiny link to
visionOntv on the climate camp homepage is highly appropriate and I
would block its removal.<br>
<br></div><div class="im"><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">I
also think that it's odd that films that were made on camp by CCTV crew
come up with a visionOn label at the start. Why doesn't it say Climate
Camp TV there?<br>
</blockquote></div></div><div><br>This is a purely technical issue that
derives from using VOTV's account. We could lose it all together -
technically it's called "smoke" - we could untick it, but then viewers
would not get the name of the film at the beginning. Iprefer the
current arrangement.<br></div><div class="im"><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>As for the text that describes the window on the Climate Camp site,
that depends on the criteria for what goes on there. I'd like to think
that there could be a way for us to include things that are relevant,
like the films about the Australian action... but I can't think how to
frase a description - other than maybe 'watch the latest films made by
Climate Camp TV and other related stuff'... which is a bit rubbish. Any
suggestions?<br>
</blockquote></div></div><div><br>I would go for something much less
proprietorial, now that climate camp is over - "Watch all the latest
climate camp films from around the world" - we could change this again
for the Swoop.<br>
Or we could try to get both sides of this: "Watch the latest Climate
Camp TV films and the best of the rest from around the world".<br>Or
the Climate Camp TV link, followed by "create the world you want to
see" from the CCTV homepage. This is my personal favourite.<br>
</div><div class="im"><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>As for comments, I don't understand why they can't be on the CCTV page?<br></blockquote></div></div><div><br>We
took them off, Emily, because you rightly said they were too complex.
See my comments above and below. We can't implement comments in a
user-friendly enough way until we have some software development done.<br>
</div><div class="im"><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>Re
donations: Yeah! someone cares about us! But yes, the first time that
we put a donations button up it pointed to the Undercurrents account
(which is were we had our original donation sent, and who agreed to be
our accounts keeper). <br>
</blockquote></div></div><div><br>No, it didn't. It was never directed to
undercurrents. The reason the foundation funds went to undercurrents
was 1. votv
did not yet have a bank account and 2. undercurrents is a charity, so
can receive funding which can only go to charitable purposes (which I
think doesn't apply in this case?).<br>
And anyway, it only matters where the account is held if you don't
trust the party holding the account, which I presume is not what you're
saying. It is just a paypal account which clearly tags all donations
which are CCTV's, so that it is absolutely clear how much is there at
any time, and accessible to anybody who wants to know. <br>
</div><div class="im"><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>We do, indeed, need to agree a process for how to decide what to do
with donations and any other funds that we have. This has been totally
ad hoc up to now, but I think that we need something more transparent.<br></blockquote>
</div></div><div><br>We need that process for all monies coming
into CCTV. It hasn't been totally ad hoc up till now - there was a
detailed budget for the London climate camp which needs to be revised in line with the amount of
money actually raised. We need now to both do the sums and establish
the priorities with anything left over.<br>
</div><div class="im"><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
As for the design of the site: there are two people, Dan and Patch who
I have spoken to, but we need to decide what we want to do with it.<br><br>I
know that a lot of people have complained (myself included) that it's
not possible to send people direct links to specific films. I don't
understand what is needed to fix this, or why it is this way, but I do
know that it is a problem which really needs addressing.<br>
</blockquote></div></div><div><br>As we've already said repeatedly, what you
have to do is post the individual
film to a website or blog - you just take the embed code out of climate
camp tv
and copy and paste into your blog, then link to that. This is currently
how virtually all video is posted to other people's websites and blogs. And it has
the
great virtue of creating valid links. youtube have skilfully automated
this process as a single click, something we are planning to do in the
future When we get the next development work done on the cms, each
film will have its own page and web address - right now, we're just
like everyone else in the world - it has to be done manually - soon
we'll be ahead of everyone else. If anyone is stuck on how to do this, please email us for help (<a href="mailto:richard@visionon.tv" target="_blank">richard@visionon.tv</a>, <a href="mailto:hamish@visionon.tv" target="_blank">hamish@visionon.tv</a>)<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>E<br><br></blockquote>Best<br><font color="#888888"><br>Richard
</font><br><br>
-----------------------------<br>
To get to the Media Team Crabgrass, email <a href="mailto:press@climatecamp.org.uk">press@climatecamp.org.uk</a> to request access<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br>