For what it's worth, I agree with Jon and Alistair on this one.<br><br>Looking at the map on-line is very, very flimsy evidence, and I would be very surprised if it were pursued. Particularly as people are likely to give them more to work with, evidence wise, on the day!<br>
<br>I can see that JimDog's concerns are totaly valid, but if it's not possible to deal with it in time, it shouldn't hold people back in this case.<br><br>E<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2009/9/29 alistair alexander <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:alistair@ali303.net">alistair@ali303.net</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">i agree with that - if people are worried we can have a disclaimer on the map or the page before, but, as far as i'm aware, there is nothing illegal about looking at a map.<br>
<br>alistair<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
2009/9/29 Jon Leighton <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:j@jonathanleighton.com" target="_blank">j@jonathanleighton.com</a>></span><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Hi all,<br>
<br>
For what it's worth, I think the benefit of doing this with Google maps<br>
outweighs the risk. The whole swoop thing is being done very very<br>
publicly, and I don't think looking at a map for a public event is<br>
sufficient evidence to prosecute somebody. Even if they somehow got hold<br>
of the IPs, they'd have to prove that the relevant individual was<br>
physically sitting in front of the computer with that IP address.<br>
<br>
Basically, I think doing it in a way whereby IPs aren't logged would be<br>
nice, but it looks like that isn't possible, and I think we should just<br>
do it anyway.<br>
<br>
Understand this is controversial - maybe we can have a chat about this<br>
specifically and security provisions in general at the gathering.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<font color="#888888">Jon<br>
</font><div><div></div><div><br>
On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 12:15 +0100, <a href="mailto:david@vannen.com" target="_blank">david@vannen.com</a> wrote:<br>
> Hosting the map on our own server is outside my knowledge, and unlikely to<br>
> be inside my knowledge in the timeframe, so I'll have to bow out.<br>
><br>
> ----- Original Message -----<br>
> From: "Carl van Tonder" <<a href="mailto:carl@supervacuo.com" target="_blank">carl@supervacuo.com</a>><br>
> To: <<a href="mailto:david@vannen.com" target="_blank">david@vannen.com</a>>; <<a href="mailto:cc-webedit@lists.aktivix.org" target="_blank">cc-webedit@lists.aktivix.org</a>><br>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:08 AM<br>
> Subject: Re: [Cc-webedit] swoop map<br>
><br>
><br>
> Hi all,<br>
><br>
> My personal preference would be for openstreetmap (or NASA's satellite<br>
> images) through OpenLayers due to the proprietary nature of Google as a<br>
> service.<br>
><br>
> Sadly, both Google and OpenLayers have the same problem - requests for map<br>
> images of any line are (fairly sensibly from a performance point of view)<br>
> all made through Javascript - i.e. directly to the map provider. This means<br>
> that we have no control over access logs. One way around this would be to<br>
> host our own map image (either Google's or someone else's) and serve it<br>
> ourselves, accessing it through OpenLayers. A custom map layer like this is<br>
> definitely possible, and would probably address our security issues,<br>
> although I'm afraid that having suggested this I don't myself have time to<br>
> do this early enough so as to be useful for the Swoop.<br>
><br>
> It's not that much work (or technically complex) though, and _could_ be less<br>
> work than an illustrated map.<br>
><br>
> Hope this makes some sort of sense.<br>
><br>
> Coal and riots,<br>
> Carl<br>
><br>
> -original message-<br>
> Subject: Re: [Cc-webedit] swoop map<br>
> From: <<a href="mailto:david@vannen.com" target="_blank">david@vannen.com</a>><br>
> Date: 29/09/2009 5:31 am<br>
><br>
> <Ah, oops, that was a mis-type, didn't mean to send as-is.><br>
><br>
> Is there another service we can use, given the time frame?<br>
><br>
> Is there a way of using Google maps without disclosing IP addesses, etc?<br>
> Perhaps a way of Onion-Routing the map?<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ----- Original Message -----<br>
> From: <<a href="mailto:david@vannen.com" target="_blank">david@vannen.com</a>><br>
> To: <<a href="mailto:cc-webedit@lists.aktivix.org" target="_blank">cc-webedit@lists.aktivix.org</a>><br>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 4:59 AM<br>
> Subject: Re: [Cc-webedit] swoop map<br>
><br>
><br>
> ><br>
> > I trust Jim Dog's judgemet re. security issues. Hence, as nice as I<br>
> > believe a Google map may be, I can't go ahead if he thinks it's a risk.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > ----- Original Message -----<br>
> > From: <<a href="mailto:theinnercityhippy@riseup.net" target="_blank">theinnercityhippy@riseup.net</a>><br>
> > To: <<a href="mailto:cc-webedit@lists.aktivix.org" target="_blank">cc-webedit@lists.aktivix.org</a>><br>
> > Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 5:25 PM<br>
> > Subject: Re: [Cc-webedit] swoop map<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> >><br>
> >> keep in mind that we need to host the map on our own server, ideally only<br>
> >> accessible with an ssl connection and we need to avoid storing any cookie<br>
> >> info from the users of this page.<br>
> >><br>
> >> An external service like google maps really isn't suitable for this<br>
> >> unless the map request is rerouted as coming from our server as we run<br>
> >> the risk of users being identified by ip and winding up with so called<br>
> >> evidence of conspiricy which we need to guard against. Remember, people<br>
> >> need to trust that we have thought of this and are taking steps to<br>
> >> minimise the risk or it could backfire badly.<br>
> >><br>
> >> If the maps are stored and accessed from our server, we have the removeip<br>
> >> apache mod running so it will look like all the requests have come from<br>
> >> the localhost in the unlikely event of these application logs being<br>
> >> seized<br>
> >> (though ideally they should be pointed at /dev/null )<br>
> >><br>
> >> feel free to message me off list if you need more advice<br>
> >><br>
> >> solidarity<br>
> >><br>
> >> jimdog<br>
> >><br>
> >>> Sounds great David, go for it.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> I look forward to seeing the results :)<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Jon<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> On Sun, 2009-09-27 at 21:01 +0100, <a href="mailto:david@vannen.com" target="_blank">david@vannen.com</a> wrote:<br>
> >>>> Unless somebody who's really in touch with with Google Maps would<br>
> >>>> rather do it, I can take this on, and have it done by Tuesday eve. the<br>
> >>>> basic map is a quick job, the overlays a bit longer.<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> I agree about the need for a printable map.<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> DV<br>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----<br>
> >>>> From: Alistair Alexander<br>
> >>>> To: <a href="mailto:cc-webedit@lists.aktivix.org" target="_blank">cc-webedit@lists.aktivix.org</a><br>
> >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 8:39 PM<br>
> >>>> Subject: [Cc-webedit] swoop map<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> There's been a request for an interactive map of the Swoop to<br>
> >>>> be put online.<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> My understanding is that it would need to be more than a<br>
> >>>> google map and would need to show:<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> * Ratcliffe and surrounding area<br>
> >>>> * Bloc starting points with big arrows showing suggested<br>
> >>>> routes<br>
> >>>> * Mouseover boxes detailing points of interest<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> In the time available, it seems like a pretty tall order - do<br>
> >>>> we know any web designer who might be able to do this (very<br>
> >>>> quickly)?<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> I'd suggest we also need a PDF map for printing out.<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> Alistair<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> ______________________________________________________________<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>>> Cc-webedit mailing list<br>
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> >>>> <a href="https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-webedit" target="_blank">https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-webedit</a><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> ______________________________________________________________<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.<br>
> >>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.<br>
> >>>> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 270.12.11/2089 - Release<br>
> >>>> Date: 4/30/2009 17:53<br>
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> >>><br>
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> >>> <a href="https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-webedit" target="_blank">https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-webedit</a><br>
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> >><br>
> >> _______________________________________________<br>
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> >> <a href="https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-webedit" target="_blank">https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-webedit</a><br>
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> >> --<br>
> >> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.<br>
> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.<br>
> >> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 270.12.11/2089 - Release Date:<br>
> >> 4/30/2009 17:53<br>
> >><br>
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> ><br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Cc-webedit mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:Cc-webedit@lists.aktivix.org" target="_blank">Cc-webedit@lists.aktivix.org</a><br>
> > <a href="https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-webedit" target="_blank">https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-webedit</a><br>
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> ><br>
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> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.<br>
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database:<br>
> > 270.12.11/2089 - Release Date: 4/30/2009 17:53<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
><br>
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