[dissent-tech] Proposed changes to website

[Space Bunny]

tabitha747 at riseup.net wrote:

>Some of us got together as we found the website to be a bit confusing and
>difficult to navigate.
>

There is navigation on every page, in left col and at bottom and also a 
bread trail at top, leading one back.
The thing is there is allot on the site and there will be more, which 
will make it more overwhelming than you static web version of  a leaflet 
that many sites are, but that's what this site has become as people have 
wished allot to go on site.



>  These are the notes from our discussions.  Please
>comment.
>
>HOME PAGE:
>This if possible should only have the intro paragraph and a left hand
>column with the following on it:
>* Menu list (see below)
>* Calendar (as it is on current site except with content)
>  
>
No one is overseeing putting meetings on the dynamic calendar, it is bit 
hit and miss. I don't see reasons to have it at forefront especially 
given this.

>* Hit counter
>  
>
I actually was considering removing one displayed at mo, as it is 
misleading; see stats in admin. It would actually be more misleading if 
used with static pages as it displays hits for each dynamic each page 
called. Or do you want a separate hit counter for just hits on front page.

>MAIN MENU:
>How this site works: [closed] This link should take you to a text about
>how to use the site including list of pages and what to post where, login
>box for administrators, and a contact link for the website working group)
>Newsflash [open publishing]
>  
>
I am totally against any form of 'open publishing' on dissent network 
site as I understand 'open publishing'.

In fact I have never been that keen on the guestbook with it's open 
publishing (display straight away - moderate after post) model, but I 
can live with it, especially  as the  openness of a guest book is 
understood by viewers.

But for other parts of the site I have always promoted fact that while 
the content can be alter by a web interface access to that interface is 
restricted to those that are involved in dissent working and local 
groups, and is managed through a web of trust.
And if any access to submit stuff for site as in case with web links at 
moment users not in this web of trust would have stuff moderated after 
submission.

I may have added  to confusion by at dissent gathering by getting over 
that I was asking people in working groups to come forward to add 
content to say that it was like indymedia to add via a web interface. 
But the workflow for arriving at what people see certainly is not like 
indymedia.


>Gatherings [open?] This page should have current invite and agenda (if
>available), contact for gathering working group, archive of past minutes.
>Local Groups - as it is
>Working Groups- as it is.
>G8 info [open] Tadzio's article, links to interesting sites (e.g. Official
>G8 site, Uni of Toronto, Perthshire etc.)
>Tactics, Targets and Training [open] - Maps, company info, photos,
>training info, links to events, Legal info and links to legal pages,
>Medical info and links to medical pages, Mental Health info, etc.
>Publicity Resources [open] PDFs, texts, images, calls to action etc.
>International Network [open] links to translations
>Discussion Forum (link to enrager.net)
>Media [closed?] This should link to a page with a media disclaimer and a
>link to indymedia.org.uk and links to other "alternative media" [open]
>page with a list of other useful alternative media links.
>Archive [open] everything else...?
>  
>

I am guessing (but it is only a guess as I am unclear) that by 'open' 
you actually mean dynamically managed via the CMSs web interface which 
multiple people have layered access to. And 'closed' you mean some 
static pages that are managed through one person like most websites that 
have sprung up for these sort of things.

If someone is willing to and manages the process of creating them then 
some static pages to be created and maybe the first page people see when 
they come to www.dissent.org.uk to be one. We have to get round fact we 
don't want to break incoming links that one can't use index.html in same 
directory as index.php of cms as interferes with POST function, but 
there is a way round this splitting usage of domains with and without 
www. and some redirects. We can cross that bridge when we come to it.

But the scheme  you lay out does not quite fit my interperation, as it 
would imply selected dynamic elements to be used in some lone (in 
general 'static') pages. At the moment the site is built around use of 
one template and site is driven via index.php, one of great things about 
mambo cms is one can build sets of pages and embed a few of dynamic 
elements in them, using different module sets from the same db. But I 
have never tried this myself, and not sure of possibilities or 
limitations of this ( http://www.j12.org/sb/mamhooks.htm ).  In fact I 
have not got round to finishing the look and feel of the G1 template I 
hoped to work on, which involves adding more class to get images to show 
in modules,  sub menus to show etc.. When Gary took helm over the then 
rudderless website oversight, he rather than developing a new template 
just switch to a different default one. I have no problem with this. But 
it does indicate we have so far had limited human resources to then 
develop how the site at a structural level, rather than content. Now it 
could be just inertia due to how this website sites in a fuzzy wide 
ranging project.

One thing I have always promoted is being a network of groups, local 
groups should do there own websites. There is no one way of making a 
website that suits all viewers.  At one point I wanted the site 2 col 
with all modules on left, but others went with 3 col.

We link to forum on another site so we don't have to worry about 
overseeing it, and can use time, to develop other content.

I think we get balance about right with this one, given human resources 
we have.

Until I get a clear idea of how you wish to implement what you suggest 
it is hard to comment.

But it seems you want to group some stuff around certain categories that 
is spread across various bit of functionality in the CMS, this can not 
really be don't in a clean elegant way within the limits of how the off 
the shelf cms works. Though I can see idea of some static pages with 
pointers to various sub sections within each bit of functionality. But 
at end of day if one want to make a site with an elegant structure alike 
a guide book then doing another site as a static site copying what you 
need from dynamic  and one person updating now and again may be best way 
to achieve this. It would be duplication of info but as I have said be 
fore I don't see that as a problem just if the extra effort to create 
(and maintain if not timeless) is worth it.

Also one change you made before of changing Documents to Downloads, 
choose to lead people to that part of site based on functioning of it 
rather than what to find there. And that act of downloading is apparent 
to you as that is how you are set up. But for many when they click on 
link to pdf or rtf file, it open within there browser, like a web page. 
Now you and I with our technical  knowledge know that it is an external 
plugin (Acrobat, xpdf, ghostscript or whatever) rather than browser 
itself that is doing that, but to many casual viewers it will be same 
action as other webpages. Now I realise then that you perhaps wanted to 
differentiate it from the section of html marked up texts, but I don't 
think changing name to 'downloads' achieves that. One could remove menu 
item altogether but there are bigger disadvantages to that, in extra 
work of ensuring one links to each doc from a web page in one of 
sections (made easier now in that there is a drop down menu of all docs 
in doc manager when one makes a link with wysiwyg editor of content), 
and fact admin would have just the admin interface to to get to doc 
manager to add stuff via, and I quite like fact I can browse stuff like 
a casual viewer then just hit edit or upload link (if logged in as editor).

As ever those of you in working groups that have not got admin access 
(and help/training) to site please put yourself forward.
I am happy to meet with others active on list/site as suggested monday 
just after the gathering. But in Bradford I found my self free most of 
sat evening and only one person approached me to be shown site. Also 
someone added the website to the agenda at Bradford, so obviously had 
some thoughts on it, but never put them self forward to express them at 
gathering. If someone wants to to put website on agenda at next 
gathering do have a clear idea of what you want decided and discussed 
and lay ground work for that. There may have been a need for debate 
should a network have website early on, which I guess is linked in with 
the debate that everyone has been getting fed up with of what is a 
network? (well lets just do it and find out). But I think it is too late 
now we have this site, it is there. And I think it has done a good job 
so far. There will of course be stuff discussed at network gathering 
which will affect and feed into what goes on site. As site reflects what 
network is doing.

Anyway more on that later.

also all those with admin access please note:

If in admin one is trying to copy and past text into text boxs, if the 
javascript wysiwyg editor is active, browsers will often on allow the 
copy and past to   interact with the javascript. This is a security 
measure to prevent people who run website being able to arbitrarily take 
stuff from you clip board. Press the button marked <html> to get raw 
form and past in there then return to wysiwyg editor by press toggle 
<html> button again. If you put some raw tags in such as <p> it will try 
to close any unclosed ones. It also trys to convert special characters, 
one less thing to worry about.
http://webmonkey.wired.com/webmonkey/reference/special_characters/


Also I will be quite busy with several projects including setting up 
servers to rehost sites such as dissent.org.uk as the present set up for 
hosting sites I have comes to end in October. Many details have yet to 
be worked out for new servers, and will let people know near time what 
options are. But there will be hopefully a collectively managed server 
for political sites. There should be no changes as far as users of site 
concerned, except for temp downtime during move.

bye for now,

Space Bunny
http://j12.org/sb/