<DIV>"I don't think demonstrations achieve anything. At least I don't know<BR>of one that has. I'm guessing MPH is some kind of continuation of<BR>Jubilee 2000 who managed to get 100,000 at the last G8 in Birmingham?<BR>I think they were basically ignored - the only success being that Tony<BR>Blair made some sort of wishy washy statement about how he supported<BR>them but wasn't going to do anything anyway."</DIV>
<DIV>I think this statement is SERIOUSLY flawed. The Poll Tax demonstration was probably the single biggest factor (building on the non-payment campaign) which ended the Poll Tax. The 'little things' which build up to the 'big things' are ESSENTIAL!</DIV>
<DIV>The big problem with the 100,000 at the last G8 in Birmingham was that 'the left' did not seriously involve itself. It was cynical. And learned its lesson!!</DIV>
<DIV>Anyway, how come 'we' haven't attacked Syria, or Iran, or Cuba, or North Korea?</DIV>
<DIV>Ian <BR><BR><BR><B><I>g8-sheffield-request@lists.aktivix.org</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Send g8-sheffield mailing list submissions to<BR>g8-sheffield@lists.aktivix.org<BR><BR>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<BR>http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/g8-sheffield<BR>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<BR>g8-sheffield-request@lists.aktivix.org<BR><BR>You can reach the person managing the list at<BR>g8-sheffield-owner@lists.aktivix.org<BR><BR>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>than "Re: Contents of g8-sheffield digest..."<BR><BR><BR>Today's Topics:<BR><BR>1. Poster - version 2 (atw)<BR>2. Re[6]: [g8-sheffield] Good and bad protesters (atw)<BR>3. Re: Good and bad protesters (J)<BR>4. Letter to G8 alternatives (@mp)<BR>5. Re[2]: [g8-sheffield] Good and bad protesters (atw)<BR>6. Re: Poster - version 2 (Chris)<BR>7. Oops - anti-poverty bands made with forced labour (Dan)<BR>8. Re: Good and
bad protesters (adriana)<BR>9. Prayers for Dissent Christians... (@mp)<BR><BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 1<BR>Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 21:29:35 +0100<BR>From: atw <AGAINSTTHEWAR@TOTALSERVE.CO.UK><BR>Subject: [g8-sheffield] Poster - version 2<BR>To: g8-sheffield@lists.aktivix.org<BR>Message-ID: <1907297579.20050530212935@totalserve.co.uk><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<BR><BR>I've put PDF and hi res PNG versions of the poster on the SSF website.<BR><BR>http://wiki.sheffieldsocialforum.org.uk/G8Shefpublicity<BR><BR>I've left the demo dates off because although they are still<BR>publicised on the StWC web site I'm not sure where they start or when.<BR>I wrote them an email several days ago but have not received a reply.<BR>Their latest bulk email acknowledges the police bans and "urge[s]<BR>Sheffield people to oppose restrictions" but still doesn't say whether<BR>that means the demo are going ahead or
not.<BR><BR>And since we want to get these to the printers tomorrow morning we<BR>can't wait any longer.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Can someone with broadband and Adobe Acrobat download the PDF version<BR>and check all the text is visible with the right fonts. (eg. dates,<BR>web address etc.) To do this compare with the image version...<BR><BR>http://wiki.sheffieldsocialforum.org.uk/Image:Poster2-websize.png<BR><BR>Nick and Helene seem to have a problem where on my computer it seems<BR>to open fine. Would be good to know before taking it to the printers<BR>in the morning.<BR><BR>For anyone wanting to print out a copy but only has a dial up<BR>connection the hi res PNG version is only 500k compared to the PDF<BR>which is 11mbs.<BR><BR>cheers<BR><BR>steve<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Independent grassroots news: www.sheffield.indymedia.org.uk<BR><BR><BR><BR>-- <BR>No virus found in this outgoing message.<BR>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.<BR>Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.17 - Release Date:
25/05/2005<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 2<BR>Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 21:38:49 +0100<BR>From: atw <AGAINSTTHEWAR@TOTALSERVE.CO.UK><BR>Subject: Re[6]: [g8-sheffield] Good and bad protesters<BR>To: g8-sheffield@lists.aktivix.org<BR>Message-ID: <193973538.20050530213849@totalserve.co.uk><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<BR><BR><BR>dh> So far as I know, Make Poverty History hasn't made any statement<BR>dh> attacking Dissent. The media are stirring this up - and it seems to be<BR>dh> working.<BR><BR>I don't know either. I was going on a sentence in Chris Malins email,<BR>"Make Poverty HIstory and other similar groups are typically willing<BR>to condemn types of behaviour".<BR><BR><BR>dh> I don't deny the importance and usefulness of direct action. But I<BR>dh> don't believe that it's the only form of political action that ever<BR>dh> achieves anything - which seems to be your position, if I've<BR>dh>
understood?<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>dh> The sheer size of take-up of the MPH campaign (including a bandwagon<BR>dh> of celebrities, half of whom doubtless haven't a clue what they're<BR>dh> talking about) has forced the issues of trade, debt and aid to an<BR>dh> unprecedented profile in the British media this year. That keeps up<BR>dh> the pressure on the government, which contributes to (and I say this<BR>dh> through gritted teeth) the British government taking a relatively more<BR>dh> impressive line on those issues compared to other G8 governments.<BR>dh> However, the coalition has not endorsed the government's position,<BR>dh> despite Blair's attempts to co-opt it, but continues to lobby for more<BR>dh> radical reform on all three fronts.<BR><BR>dh> This won't end capitalism - but it may save huge numbers of lives<BR>dh> in the mean time.<BR><BR><BR>I certainly hope so - but I wouldn't count on it. And if the other G8<BR>governments don't agree
then the British government's effort will be<BR>simply words and Blair will have both his cake and eat it. He'll have<BR>credibility with MPH for having tried but nothing will have changed.<BR><BR>steve<BR><BR><BR><BR>-- <BR>No virus found in this outgoing message.<BR>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.<BR>Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.17 - Release Date: 25/05/2005<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 3<BR>Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 13:39:40 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: J <YESTERDAYZ_MAN@YAHOO.COM><BR>Subject: Re: [g8-sheffield] Good and bad protesters<BR>To: g8-sheffield@lists.aktivix.org<BR>Message-ID: <20050530203940.6954.qmail@web52008.mail.yahoo.com><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<BR><BR>hmmm, that story appears to have serious innaccuracies<BR>in it, i question its claims. The bands are made from<BR>fair trade cotton as far as i know and not rubber.<BR>Correct me if i am wrong.<BR><BR>--- Chris <CHRIS@AKTIVIX.ORG>wrote:<BR>> Hi<BR>>
<BR>> On Mon 30-May-2005 at 05:13:11PM +0100, Steve<BR>> Against the<BR>> War wrote:<BR>> > <BR>> > dh> Steve - sales of white bands currently stand<BR>> at 3.5<BR>> > million.<BR>> > <BR>> > I don't know what you mean by a 'white band' or<BR>> whether<BR>> > it is relevent it has to what I said?<BR>> <BR>> The white bands are the MPH history wrist bands:<BR>> <BR>> - G8 Make Poverty History Wristbands made in Sweat<BR>> Shops<BR>> Report<BR>> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/05/312061.html<BR>> <BR>> Chris<BR>> <BR>> -- <BR>> Aktivix -- Free Software for a Free World<BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> http://www.sheffield.dissent.org.uk/<BR>> http://wiki.sheffieldsocialforum.org.uk/G8<BR>> g8-sheffield mailing list<BR>> g8-sheffield@lists.aktivix.org<BR>><BR>http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/g8-sheffield<BR>>
<BR><BR><BR><BR>__________________________________ <BR>Do you Yahoo!? <BR>Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site<BR>http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 4<BR>Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 21:36:45 +0100<BR>From: "@mp" <AMPARO2YO@TELEFONICA.NET><BR>Subject: [g8-sheffield] Letter to G8 alternatives<BR>To: g8-sheffield@lists.aktivix.org<BR>Message-ID: <429B795D.6000005@telefonica.net><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed<BR><BR>> <BR><BR><BR>This letter may well be known by its recipients by now!<BR>I am transcribing it (as it was drafted in February this year). since i <BR>think we have some g8-alternatives representatives in sheffield dissent <BR>as well and on this mailing list...<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>> Dear G8 Alternatives,<BR>> <BR>> Firstly an introduction: we are the G8 Legal Support Group. The Legal<BR>> Support group was set up in July 2004 as a “working
group” of the Dissent<BR>> Network of whom you’ll be aware. We have a website with more information<BR>> about us at : www.g8legalsupport.info.<BR>> <BR>> We have members with many years of collective experience who have provided<BR>> legal monitoring and support for such groups as the Legal Defence &<BR>> Monitoring Group ( www.ldmg.org.uk/ ) in London, who have monitored the<BR>> annual London Mayday celebrations, DSEI as well as numerous other events;<BR>> and also members involved in legal support for Trident Ploughshares<BR>> (www.tridentploughshares.org/ ) activities and supporting those arrested<BR>> during direct action at Faslane Naval Base. Additionally, both groups take<BR>> part in court monitoring for those charged with offences, together with<BR>> other acts of solidarity as part of their follow up work.<BR>> <BR>> While we continue to attend Dissent Network gatherings and remain its<BR>> “Legal Working Group” we
consider it important that legal support is<BR>> co-ordinated across the range of protests and demonstrations being planned<BR>> for the summit, regardless of the organisation that calls it. This is why<BR>> we would like to establish communication and coordination with G8<BR>> Alternatives. As one of the networks organising against the summit, we<BR>> feel it is vital that the issue of legal monitoring, support and<BR>> solidarity for anyone arrested is tackled. We note that you would also<BR>> consider this a priority in your appeal for solicitors that features<BR>> prominently on your website. We too are in the process of establishing<BR>> links with solicitors. This is an example of an area where we are<BR>> concerned that we do not end up duplicating each others work.<BR>> <BR>> Following a meeting of some of our members recently, we identified this<BR>> and a number of other areas that we would like to discuss with you and<BR>> reach
some common agreement on. These include:<BR>> <BR>> • The formation of a singular, co-ordinated legal support structure for<BR>> the duration of the summit<BR>> • Whether you would be able to distribute our printed “Guide to Scots Law,<BR>> Police Powers etc” through your networks<BR>> • The co-ordination and logistics of setting up a Legal Support office (we<BR>> are in the process of finding and setting one up)<BR>> • Recruitment of legal observers to monitor the summit demonstrations<BR>> (volunteers do not need prior legal knowledge, we will be holding training<BR>> sessions for legal observers prior to the summit<BR>> • Identification issues for legal volunteers ie. We will be wearing orange<BR>> hi-vis vests clearly marked “Legal Observer”. Therefore we would obviously<BR>> need to be clearly distinguishable from, and not confused with, vests that<BR>> march “stewards” may wear.<BR>> <BR>> We would be interested in setting up a
meeting with G8A in the very near<BR>> future to discuss these issues and any that you may also have.<BR>> <BR>> In the meantime I attach our working principles which we hope you will<BR>> feel able to support. We are contactable by email at<BR>> g8legalsupport@riseup.net if you have any queries.<BR>> <BR>> We look forward to hearing back from and meeting with you<BR>> <BR>> In solidarity,<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> G8 Legal Support Group<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> WORKING PRINCIPLES<BR>> <BR>> 1. We give unconditional support to anyone arrested as a result of<BR>> participation in protests or actions against the G8. We are not the judge<BR>> and jury of the validity or otherwise of the tactics of protesters.<BR>> <BR>> 2. The role of legal observers is to observe, gather evidence and witnesses.<BR>> <BR>> 3. Legal observers will not mediate between protesters and the police or<BR>> negotiate with the
police.<BR>> <BR>> 4. Legal observers are volunteers with no special legal status.<BR>> <BR>> 5. Legal observers are not necessarily trained lawyers and the advice<BR>> given by legal observers is confined to the advice given by the group as a<BR>> whole.<BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 5<BR>Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 22:19:18 +0100<BR>From: atw <AGAINSTTHEWAR@TOTALSERVE.CO.UK><BR>Subject: Re[2]: [g8-sheffield] Good and bad protesters<BR>To: g8-sheffield@lists.aktivix.org<BR>Message-ID: <1359300366.20050530221918@totalserve.co.uk><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<BR><BR><BR>J> hmmm, that story appears to have serious innaccuracies in it, i<BR>J> question its claims. The bands are made from fair trade cotton as<BR>J> far as i know and not rubber. Correct me if i am wrong.<BR><BR>A couple bits maybe clarify the situation...<BR><BR>"Oxfam failed to tell other charities that it had decided to stop<BR>ordering from
the Shenzhen company." ie. there are now at least 2<BR>different sources for the bands. Maybe some are made from rubber some<BR>some from cotton?<BR><BR><BR>AND...<BR><BR>"it sourced 1.5 million of the bands - made from silicon rubber or<BR>woven fabric - from the Fujian factory" . i.e. They do appear to be<BR>making both.<BR><BR>I'm actually amazed and appalled they're having them made in China<BR>anyway. Why weren't they made in this country which would save the<BR>transport cost and pollution from bringing them half way around the<BR>world?<BR><BR>The whole thing seems like a farce. It does make me feel that the<BR>whole thing is more of an exercise in Making Guilt History rather than<BR>making poverty history. (though with these revelations they may have<BR>failed on that already)<BR><BR>steve<BR><BR><BR><BR>-- <BR>No virus found in this outgoing message.<BR>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.<BR>Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.17 - Release Date:
25/05/2005<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 6<BR>Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 22:20:26 +0100<BR>From: Chris <CHRIS@AKTIVIX.ORG><BR>Subject: Re: [g8-sheffield] Poster - version 2<BR>To: g8-sheffield@lists.aktivix.org<BR>Message-ID: <20050530212026.GB14959@aktivix.org><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<BR><BR>Hi<BR><BR>On Mon 30-May-2005 at 09:29:35PM +0100, Steve Against the<BR>War wrote:<BR>> <BR>> Can someone with broadband and Adobe Acrobat download<BR>> the PDF version and check all the text is visible with<BR>> the right fonts. (eg. dates, web address etc.) To do<BR>> this compare with the image version...<BR>> <BR>> http://wiki.sheffieldsocialforum.org.uk/Image:Poster2-websize.png<BR><BR>Looks fine with the latest acrobat in linux...<BR><BR>Chris<BR><BR>-- <BR>Aktivix -- Free Software for a Free World<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 7<BR>Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 22:23:20 +0100<BR>From: Dan
<DAN@AKTIVIX.ORG><BR>Subject: [g8-sheffield] Oops - anti-poverty bands made with forced<BR>labour<BR>To: g8-sheffield@lists.aktivix.org<BR>Message-ID: <429B8448.7080709@aktivix.org><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<BR><BR>Oh dear...<BR><BR>"We were stupid," said Dominic Nutt at Christian Aid. "We didn't check <BR>it out, Cafod didn't check it out, and Oxfam didn't check it out."<BR><BR>http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=642659<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 8<BR>Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 00:16:21 +0100<BR>From: adriana <HJDSMDR@MIXMAIL.COM><BR>Subject: [g8-sheffield] Re: Good and bad protesters<BR>To: atw <AGAINSTTHEWAR@TOTALSERVE.CO.UK><BR>Cc: g8-sheffield@lists.aktivix.org<BR>Message-ID: <429B9EC5.6010901@mixmail.com><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed<BR><BR>Yep, we are getting closer.<BR><BR><BR>> It wouln't surprise me in the least to find<BR>> out that the
reason MPH have condemned others efforts is because the<BR>> police have asked them to do so as a pre condition for the go ahead<BR>> for their demonstration. Or it could be another similar mechanism to<BR>> prompt them into doing so. Whatever the reason its is no indication<BR>> that supporters of MPH believe in the same thing.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>atw wrote:<BR><BR>> dh> Steve - sales of white bands currently stand at 3.5 million.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I don't know what you mean by a 'white band' or whether it is relevent<BR>> it has to what I said?<BR>> <BR>> However I don't think it is necessary to have a hi degree political<BR>> conciousness to believe in direct action. All you need is a vague<BR>> awareness that the government is not interested in hearing or doing<BR>> what people want, or maybe the fact that demonstrations never change<BR>> anything or that those that are running the government completely mad.<BR>> I think
millions of people know these things at some level even though<BR>> they may not have a clue what 'capitalism' means.<BR>> <BR>> There are many examples of this but recently I would say non payment<BR>> of the Poll tax is perhaps the biggest example of people taking direct<BR>> action to change things. Millions were involved. However things like<BR>> the anti-roads protests have also recieved very wide support from the<BR>> public.<BR>> <BR>> If MPH have criticised direct action publicly then I think we have to<BR>> ask why. Why did they feel the need to say anything about these<BR>> actions at all? Why not just focus on what they're doing instead? I<BR>> don't see Dissent or other groups publicly decrying their demos.<BR>> <BR>> Well we don't know for sure but I think we can make a pretty good<BR>> guess. The idea of co-option and divide and rule mentioned in that<BR>> Spinwatch article
(http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/05/311469.html)<BR>> is probably at the core. It wouln't surprise me in the least to find<BR>> out that the reason MPH have condemned others efforts is because the<BR>> police have asked them to do so as a pre condition for the go ahead<BR>> for their demonstration. Or it could be another similar mechanism to<BR>> prompt them into doing so. Whatever the reason its is no indication<BR>> that supporters of MPH believe in the same thing.<BR>> <BR>> The reason such demos are popular is because they're less risky, and<BR>> the reason they less risky is because they are sanctioned by the<BR>> state. Its also the reason they're never going to get very far.<BR>> <BR>> cheers<BR>> <BR>> steve<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 9<BR>Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 00:51:12 +0100<BR>From: "@mp" <AMPARO2YO@TELEFONICA.NET><BR>Subject: [g8-sheffield]
Prayers for Dissent Christians...<BR>To: SSF <SSF@LISTS.AKTIVIX.ORG>, g8-sheffield@lists.aktivix.org<BR>Message-ID: <429BA6F0.9020808@telefonica.net><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<BR><BR>><BR><BR>> <BR>> 1. G8 event listings/Prayer List (Graham Martin)<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>> <BR>> Message: 1<BR>> Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 13:32:28 +0100<BR>> From: Graham Martin <GRAHAM.P.MARTIN@DSL.PIPEX.COM><BR>> Subject: [DissentChristians] G8 event listings/Prayer List<BR>> To: For Christians working alongside Anarchists at G8-2005<BR>> <DISSENTCHRISTIANS@LISTS.AKTIVIX.ORG><BR>> Message-ID: <4299B65C.2020503@dsl.pipex.com><BR>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<BR>> <BR>> As you've all probably realised there are many things going on in the <BR>> run up to the G8 and during it. Please consider using the
following web <BR>> page as a prayer list:<BR>> <BR>> http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/ImcG82005EventsForReporting<BR>> <BR>> Also, remember to prayer for the convergence meeting today and tomorrow, <BR>> and the next two mini-gatherings, 4th June and 18th June.<BR>> <BR>> Yours for peace and justice,<BR>> Graham Martin<BR>> <BR>> The G8 is coming to Britain!<BR>> 6-8th July 2005, Gleneagles, Scotland.<BR>> <BR>> Prayer-I58 - www.prayer-i58.org.uk - 3rd-8th July.<BR>> "Our aim is to provide and operate a Prayer Tent in the Rural <BR>> Convergence Space during this summer's G8 Summit, between 3rd and 8th <BR>> July. We want to minister practically to those around us and to pray for <BR>> them and the issues which concern them."<BR>> <BR>> Make Poverty History :: Saturday 2nd July, Edinburgh<BR>> Trade Justice - Drop the Debt - More and Better Aid<BR>> *Leeds TIDAL have filled their two trains (1500 seats)
already.<BR>> *York Bus (#1): Tickets £20/£15, email me to book yours!<BR>> *Oxfam say 250,000 will attend, so be there!<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ------------------------------<BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> DissentChristians mailing list<BR>> DissentChristians@lists.aktivix.org<BR>> http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/dissentchristians<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> End of DissentChristians Digest, Vol 4, Issue 16<BR>> ************************************************<BR><BR><BR>As you may well be aware of, Ekklesia is also a part of the MPH coalition.<BR>Nightwatcher<BR>Facts recorder<BR>amp<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>http://www.sheffield.dissent.org.uk/<BR>http://wiki.sheffieldsocialforum.org.uk/G8<BR>g8-sheffield mailing
list<BR>g8-sheffield@lists.aktivix.org<BR>http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/g8-sheffield<BR><BR><BR>End of g8-sheffield Digest, Vol 3, Issue 62<BR>*******************************************<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>