<DIV>In response to Dan and anybody else who 'likes' the quote from the SWP conference bulletin. The quote is excellent. Nothing wrong with it at all. As anybody who has built a 'local' (eg Nether Edge) anti war group will know. </DIV>
<DIV>Ian <BR><BR><B><I>g8-sheffield-request@lists.aktivix.org</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Send g8-sheffield mailing list submissions to<BR>g8-sheffield@lists.aktivix.org<BR><BR>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<BR>http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/g8-sheffield<BR>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<BR>g8-sheffield-request@lists.aktivix.org<BR><BR>You can reach the person managing the list at<BR>g8-sheffield-owner@lists.aktivix.org<BR><BR>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>than "Re: Contents of g8-sheffield digest..."<BR><BR><BR>Today's Topics:<BR><BR>1. Why SWP undermined social forums? (Dan)<BR>2. Re: [ssf] Why SWP undermined social forums? (Chris Malins)<BR>3. Re: [ssf] Why SWP undermined social forums? (Alan Dawson)<BR>4. Re: [matilda] Sheffield Hacklab proposal we have the<BR>(worldwarfree@riseup.net)<BR>5. Statement on the policing of protests
(adriana)<BR><BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 1<BR>Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 15:34:34 +0100<BR>From: Dan <DAN@AKTIVIX.ORG><BR>Subject: [g8-sheffield] Why SWP undermined social forums?<BR>To: SF UK <UKSOCIALFORUM@LISTS.RISEUP.NET>, SSF<BR><SSF@LISTS.AKTIVIX.ORG>, G8 Sheffield <G8-SHEFFIELD@LISTS.AKTIVIX.ORG><BR>Message-ID: <42D677FA.7060402@aktivix.org><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed<BR><BR>Hey up,<BR><BR>Just got forwarded this little snippet from the Conference proceedings <BR>of 2004 SWP annual conference. As usual, I really can't quite believe <BR>anyone would be so stupid. Sectarian? Oh yeah - we're sectarian if we <BR>don't do what the SWP thinks is right - I forget. Bloody hell - I try to <BR>get over it and just chill out, then I read something like this! AAAUGH!<BR><BR>“Because of the presence revolutionary socialists in the leadership of <BR>the Stop the War Coalition, the
anti-war movement has come to occupy the <BR>radical space occupied in France by ATTAC or in Italy by the social <BR>forums and, later, the anti-war movement.<BR><BR>"This is why attempts by the sectarian left to supplant the Stop the War <BR>Coalition by social forums have failed and deserve to fail. Such <BR>attempts, portrayed as a programmatic shift to left (because social <BR>forums raise issues of economic exploitation as well as war), would in <BR>practice be a move to the right because they undermine the attempt to <BR>break the Blair government over the issue on which it is most vulnerable.”<BR><BR>http://www.swp.org.uk/resources/Conference2004.pdf<BR><BR>Dan<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 2<BR>Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 15:54:41 +0100<BR>From: Chris Malins <CHRISMALINS@GMAIL.COM><BR>Subject: [g8-sheffield] Re: [ssf] Why SWP undermined social forums?<BR>To: Dan <DAN@AKTIVIX.ORG><BR>Cc: SF UK <UKSOCIALFORUM@LISTS.RISEUP.NET>,
SSF<BR><SSF@LISTS.AKTIVIX.ORG>, G8 Sheffield <G8-SHEFFIELD@LISTS.AKTIVIX.ORG><BR>Message-ID: <42D67CB1.8040609@gmail.com><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed<BR><BR>Lets focus on breaking the Blair government, that way if we're really <BR>lucky we'll get the Tories back in. Any attempt to have an intelligent <BR>political dialogue which could suggest a solution other than oscillatory <BR>two party politics is a swing to the right. Love the SWP.<BR><BR>Dan wrote:<BR>> Hey up,<BR>> <BR>> Just got forwarded this little snippet from the Conference proceedings <BR>> of 2004 SWP annual conference. As usual, I really can't quite believe <BR>> anyone would be so stupid. Sectarian? Oh yeah - we're sectarian if we <BR>> don't do what the SWP thinks is right - I forget. Bloody hell - I try to <BR>> get over it and just chill out, then I read something like this! AAAUGH!<BR>> <BR>> “Because of the presence revolutionary socialists in
the leadership of <BR>> the Stop the War Coalition, the anti-war movement has come to occupy the <BR>> radical space occupied in France by ATTAC or in Italy by the social <BR>> forums and, later, the anti-war movement.<BR>> <BR>> "This is why attempts by the sectarian left to supplant the Stop the War <BR>> Coalition by social forums have failed and deserve to fail. Such <BR>> attempts, portrayed as a programmatic shift to left (because social <BR>> forums raise issues of economic exploitation as well as war), would in <BR>> practice be a move to the right because they undermine the attempt to <BR>> break the Blair government over the issue on which it is most vulnerable.”<BR>> <BR>> http://www.swp.org.uk/resources/Conference2004.pdf<BR>> <BR>> Dan<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> ssf mailing list<BR>> ssf@lists.aktivix.org<BR>>
http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/ssf<BR>> <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 3<BR>Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 16:07:48 +0100<BR>From: Alan Dawson <ALAND@BURNGREAVE.NET><BR>Subject: [g8-sheffield] Re: [ssf] Why SWP undermined social forums?<BR>To: Dan <DAN@AKTIVIX.ORG><BR>Cc: SF UK <UKSOCIALFORUM@LISTS.RISEUP.NET>, SSF<BR><SSF@LISTS.AKTIVIX.ORG>, G8 Sheffield <G8-SHEFFIELD@LISTS.AKTIVIX.ORG><BR>Message-ID: <1121353668.42d67fc486f37@springnight.burngreave.net><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<BR><BR>Quoting Dan <DAN@AKTIVIX.ORG>:<BR><BR><BR>> "This is why attempts by the sectarian left to supplant the Stop the War <BR>> Coalition by social forums have failed and deserve to fail. Such <BR>> attempts, portrayed as a programmatic shift to left (because social <BR>> forums raise issues of economic exploitation as well as war), would in <BR>> practice be a move to the right because they undermine the attempt to <BR>> break
the Blair government over the issue on which it is most vulnerable.”<BR>> <BR><BR>"You are a slow learner," said O'Brien gently. "How can I help it?" Winston<BR>blubbered. "How can I help seeing what is in front of my eyes? Two and two are<BR>four."<BR><BR>"Sometimes, Winston. Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three.<BR>Sometimes they are all of them at once. You must try harder. It is not easy to<BR>become sane," O'Brien shrieked. "You must love Big Brother. It is not enough to<BR>obey him .... Room 101!" <BR><BR>AED<BR>-- <BR>"If you make decisions about software -- or anything -- based solely on<BR>short-term cost and benefit, someone with a longer view can easily<BR>manoeuver you into a trap from which it is hard to escape." <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 4<BR>Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 10:38:23 -0700<BR>From: worldwarfree@riseup.net<BR>Subject: [g8-sheffield] Re: [matilda] Sheffield Hacklab proposal we<BR>have the<BR>To: Chris
<CHRIS@AKTIVIX.ORG><BR>Cc: "M.A.T.I.L.D.A." <MATILDA@LISTS.AKTIVIX.ORG>, Sheffield IMC<BR><IMC-SHEFFIELD@LISTS.INDYMEDIA.ORG>, "List for organising protests at<BR>the G8 meeting in Sheffield." <G8-SHEFFIELD@LISTS.AKTIVIX.ORG><BR>Message-ID: <1121362703.42d6a30f2b2ba@mail.riseup.net><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<BR><BR>wood tools. a room with own front door onto matlida street.. In the next few<BR>days ill draw some lose ideas ie plans onto paper.. was thinking of just<BR>takeing down the benches where the lab is now.. haveing looked it would be to<BR>much of a job.. there is enough wood to create new desktops.. we have all the<BR>computers including scanner printer ill bung in two cd burners.. i reckon talk<BR>monday come up with a day for building the benches into the room.. doing other<BR>task such as fixing locks repairing the broken windows cleaning the stairs<BR>toilet and kitchen area.. it might be cool to get some paint from re paint do a<BR>re paint
on the space as we are doing the other work.. then move in the donated<BR>computers.. set up the net work and we should be running.. ill bung these<BR>thoughts onto paper with the plans.. all we are in need off is some chairs and<BR>kitchen stuff ie mugs kettle that kind of shit.. all the other stuff we need is<BR>here in the space.. so with a weekend of hardish work we could have the space<BR>running..<BR><BR>0742<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message: 5<BR>Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 23:29:59 +0100<BR>From: adriana <HJDSMDR@MIXMAIL.COM><BR>Subject: [g8-sheffield] Statement on the policing of protests<BR>To: g8-sheffield@lists.aktivix.org<BR>Message-ID: <42D6E767.8020209@mixmail.com><BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed<BR><BR>>>>> >>Sorry if you already have received this report. There is a call <BR>for witnesses of arrests on last paragraphs and useful contact numbers <BR>for those concerned.<BR><BR>>> >>
Updates will continue to appear on the G8 Legal Support Group <BR>website:<BR>>>>> >> www.g8legalsupport.info<BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >> The G8 Legal Support Group can be contacted by email:<BR>>>>> >> g8legalsupport@riseup.net<BR><BR><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >> Initial Statement on the Policing of the Protests against the G8 in<BR>>>>> >> Scotland in July 2005<BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >> G8 Legal Support Group<BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >> During the protests against the G8 over 700 people were <BR>detained by the<BR>>>>> >> police, often overnight, and around 354 people have been <BR>arrested and<BR>>>>> >> charged. The courts have
imposed draconian bail conditions, <BR>not only<BR>>>>> >> preventing those arrested from continuing their protests <BR>against the G8<BR>>>>> >> summit, but forcing those not resident in Scotland to leave at an<BR>>>>> >> impossible speed. As a direct result of this tactic, some <BR>people have<BR>>>>> >> been rearrested for breach of bail. People unable to give an <BR>address<BR><BR>in<BR><BR>>>>> >> the UK have been remanded in prison, even though in all the <BR>cases we<BR><BR>are<BR><BR>>>>> >> aware of, none faces serious enough charges to result in a prison<BR>>>>> >> sentence<BR>>>>> >> even if convicted. Amongst those remanded in custody is one person<BR><BR>aged<BR><BR>>>>> >> 16 and a woman with a child.<BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>>
>> The police made widespread use and abuse of powers under <BR>Section 60 of<BR>>>>> >> the<BR>>>>> >> Criminal Justice & Public Order Act 1994. This section is <BR>supposed to<BR>>>>> >> be<BR>>>>> >> used to search for weapons. However it has been used as a blanket<BR>>>>> >> authority to stop and search in a manner designed simply to <BR>intimidate<BR>>>>> >> protesters. For example, everyone attending the protest at <BR>Dungavel<BR>>>>> >> Detention Centre was subject to a bag search. At the Hori-zone<BR>>>>> >> ecovillage<BR>>>>> >> in Stirling, the police at times searched everyone who came and <BR>went.<BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >> The police also often placed protesters in cordons, the legality of<BR>>>>>
>> which<BR>>>>> >> is still uncertain, detaining people for many hours. At the <BR>Hori-zone<BR>>>>> >> ecovillage in Stirling for long periods of time the poilce <BR>refused to<BR>>>>> >> let<BR>>>>> >> anyone leave. No legal justification was provided for this <BR>abuse of<BR>>>>> >> power.<BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >> The police also banned protests. They cancelled the G8 <BR>Alternatives<BR>>>>> >> demo<BR>>>>> >> at Gleneagles "for reasons of public safety" and this led to <BR>coaches of<BR>>>>> >> protesters being detented on a roundabout eleven miles away from<BR>>>>> >> Auchterarder for an hour. Eventually the protest was allowed to go<BR>>>>> >> ahead.<BR>>>>> >> On the this and other
days many protesters were arrested whilst<BR>>>>> >> travelling<BR>>>>> >> to protests and held for alleged conspiracy. At Waverly train <BR>station<BR>>>>> >> in<BR>>>>> >> Edinburgh peole were prevented from holding a spontanous protest<BR><BR>against<BR><BR>>>>> >> the ongoing 'war on terror'.<BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >> The public were prevented from attending the sheriff's court, <BR>meaning<BR>>>>> >> that<BR>>>>> >> people faced the court without support from friends. <BR>Apparently the<BR>>>>> >> reason was that their may be protests at Court, although there <BR>had been<BR>>>>> >> no<BR>>>>> >> actual protests just groups of concerned friends.<BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>>
>><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >> Finally we note that this was the largest policing operation <BR>ever seen<BR>>>>> >> in<BR>>>>> >> the UK. The state was clearly prepared to devote unlimited <BR>resources<BR><BR>to<BR><BR>>>>> >> the policing operation, all with the sole aim of preventing the <BR>leaders<BR>>>>> >> of<BR>>>>> >> the G8 of being aware of the popular discontent with their <BR>policies and<BR>>>>> >> the effect of those policies on the vast majority of the worlds<BR>>>>> >> population.<BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >> For these reasons we unreservedly condemn the policing of the <BR>protests<BR>>>>> >> at<BR>>>>> >> the G8 summit in Scotland in July 2005.<BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >>
NOTES<BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >> Updates will continue to appear on the G8 Legal Support Group <BR>website:<BR>>>>> >> www.g8legalsupport.info<BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >> The G8 Legal Support Group can be contacted by email:<BR>>>>> >> g8legalsupport@riseup.net<BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >> The G8 Legal Support Group urgently needs to hear from witnesses to<BR>>>>> >> arrests. Please email us or complete the witness form on our <BR>website.<BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >> The G8 Legal Support Group will issue a full report on the <BR>Policing of<BR>>>>> >> the<BR>>>>> >> Protests against the G8 in Scotland in
July 2005 in due course.<BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >> A prisoner support group is being set up. Contact: July 2005 <BR>Prisoner<BR>>>>> >> Support Group, c/o 17 West Montgomery Place, Edinburgh, EH7 5HA.<BR><BR>Phone:<BR><BR>>>>> >> 0131 208 0767 Email: july2005solidarity@yahoo.co.uk<BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >> www.ldmg.org.uk<BR>>>>> >> Postal address: LDMG, C/o BM Haven, London WC1N 3XX<BR>>>>> >><BR>>>>> >> ---------------------------------<BR>-- <BR><BR><BR>Please, never despise the translator. She is the mailman of human
<BR>civilisation.<BR>(Pushkin).<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>http://www.sheffield.dissent.org.uk/<BR>http://wiki.sheffieldsocialforum.org.uk/G8<BR>g8-sheffield mailing list<BR>g8-sheffield@lists.aktivix.org<BR>http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/g8-sheffield<BR><BR><BR>End of g8-sheffield Digest, Vol 5, Issue 12<BR>*******************************************<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>