[HacktionLab] ogg camp

Tue Jun 21 18:55:25 UTC 2011

like the picture penguin
thought it might have been a penguin picture myself but I'm not animalist

(animalist > being bias against certain animals more than others :D)

A challenge I have made is to incorporate the most important things on a
daily basis, sitting here reading your comments, improving my health by
doing boxing training with an experience fighter outside, coming back and
refining myself so it's easier for everyone else in some respect or at
least highlights actively my faults I then choose to change... and yet
people are not prepared to dice with an other way then working or have
been doing it for so long it's no longer something they can visualise...

Day to day we can choose, like a survery to what we think about things in
our life, yes no yes no until we get to know what it is
and then saying objectively what works, even if it feels bad or seems
impossible. Stopping a lot of things is a good way to go as it makes
things clear... but who wants to start all over again?

I think solutions within your power and range (NOT others) works better
and naturally attracts other, even if it means reducing the goal to a
smaller type of goal inside of it to get started. Like a kid eating a cake
we cram it all in and thing 'shit I aint go enough sliva to deal with
this' - bit by bit 01010101010101

cut off what you know is wrong even if it was giving you something you need.

Change is the most constant thing you can rely on, more than any 'one' or
any 'thing'... try thriving on more of that then what someone else wants
to give you for other reasons and affects!

p.s
I would like feedback if this is too much for this list so I too can busy
myself elsewhere, pretty sure I've covered everything in this one (no
promises)

might be better if you're in cambridge or wanna trip down here?... feel
like a change? - I have a place to stay in cambridge this week only, play
chess, do sports and other stuff....

p.s
nothing like HAVING to deal with people who you dislike and make things
worse from your money/energy - demonstrate a better way sure but if that
doesn't work, move on and MAKE ANOTHER WAY FOR PEOPLE LIKE!!
I know most on here do that so I'm going to stop typing!

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> Hi
>
> I'm partly feeling guilty that I started a discussion that has led to
some bad feeling. But also positive that some good & interesting points
have given me some food for thought.
>
>> by agreeing with
>> someone else's comment that there could be value in some tech
>> activists
>> thinking a bit more politically
>
> That was roughly what I said, but in the context of (warning - false
dichotomy coming up) tech activists supporting political activists to
think a bit more about tech. I think there's room & need for both in
general, but the scale of the need varies greatly from person to person.
>
> In terms of taking things forward, I'm not so sure that more emails at
this time will create solutions (but I'm certainly not trying to
restrict conversation - just putting my view - for what it's worth - out
there).
>
> For me, I think I'll take a step back to reflect [1]. But I will bear
this conversation in mind when I'm next planning some sort of
> political-tech-activist thing and try to get people who are more towards
each end of the false dichotomy together (face to face if possible) and
see what practical ideas come up.
>
> Cheers
>
> G
>
> [1] I have a simple way of reflecting. It's a bit like floatation
therapy, but without getting wet. http://ox4.org/~graham/reflect.jpg
>
>
> On Tue 21 Jun 2011 18:15:10 BST, Zoe Young [zoe at esemplastic.net] emailed
subject: "Re: [HacktionLab] ogg camp" saying ...
>
>> hi again,
>> I'd been going to leave  this be, as there's little left for me to add
and I'm not making myself very popular... but then I saw this:
>> On 21/06/2011 17:32, Ben Green wrote:
>>> Quoting Sy <sytaffel at riseup.net>:
>>>> On 21/06/11 10:34, hacktionlab-request at lists.aktivix.org wrote:
>>>>> I don't even want particularly to be 'included in techies'
>>>>> processes' so much as
>>>>> to know that design of the most important of those processes are
starting from the needs and desires of ordinary activists,
>>>>> particularly
>>>>> those with a lot less techy knowledge and interest than me..
>>>> This seems like a deeply problematic approach to me.
>>> Me too, coders and users are one community. Don't expect to have a say
in software where you aren't contributing to the community.
>> and it raises questions about people who don't fit into this community
very well
>> What if you are - or have been - contributing as much as you could to
the 'community', and yet you lose energy, partly because you feel that
you aren't being heard? Do you still have no right to a say?
>> What if you don't have the courage, confidence, access, time, language,
ability, awareness etc to contribute to the 'community' in the first
place? Do you still have no right to a say?
>> What if you really, really want to use free software, and to find a way
to contribute to the community within your particular limitations, but
you haven't found a way that fits the way you are in the world, your
immediate concerns and forms of action?
>> what real encouragement, facilitation is there for such outsiders to
make ourselves heard? how can we realistically contribute to a
community
>> if we are, for any reason not comfortable stepping into it, eg
attending
>> a barncamp is a step far too far for most activists?
>> this is basically why I started this discussion - by agreeing with
someone else's comment that there could be value in some tech activists
thinking a bit more politically .. which I understood in terms of
paying
>> attention to who tends to be excluded by certain ways of working, and
how this could be rebalanced a little further in the future...?? just
asking difficult questions really - sorry. better crawl back under my
stone now.
>> Happy Solstice!
>> xx Z
>>> I think though Sy that you seem to saying that Free software is really
good, whereas in fact lots of it sucks. Lightworks is in Beta and not
even available for Linux. LibreOffice has a sucky spreadsheet
>>> implementation. Crabgrass is a pain in the arse. Ubuntu is not stable
enough and Debian is not accessible enough. These are all opinions of
course, but I'm not the only one with them by a long shot.
>>> Free sofware takes longer to make because we need to find ways for a
large number of unpaid people to collaborate. Because of that we need
to build small components which work together and can be independently
maintained. We also end up scrapping large frameworks because they
just don't do what we want anymore. It all takes time. We don't really
yet have methodologies for deciding how to improve these structures
either.
>>> Ah, if only providing nice GUIs was all we needed in Free Software,
we'd probably be there by now. Things is, Free Software is getting
better, getting stronger. We can speed that up by using it with
tolerance of it's faults and contributing to the development. Free
Software is not a service.
>>> Woops, bit of a rant there.
>>> Cheers,
>>> ==
>>> From Ben Green
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> HacktionLab mailing list
>>> HacktionLab at lists.aktivix.org
>>> https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/hacktionlab
>
> - --
> penguin
>
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from March 30 2011:
I am being active in minimising emailing people, specifically those who
use a providers that are revenue based (i.e. email providers that get
money from our usage in a million ways). We serve these revenue streams
that ultimately, one way or other down the chain, help things I want less
of in the world.
This isn't personal to you. The pressures and affects money has is what I
aim to stop. You might not see it but lots of people, directly or
indirectly calculate a lot more than you read. Something free from a
'business' (The activity of providing goods and services involving
financial and commercial and industrial aspects) will always cost you in
some other way.
It's my belief that reducing money and personally not giving the game of
good life away to other in this way will help me feel better and be
better. I also believe in the long term everyone benefits though I
definitely am doing it for myself first (as I believe everyone should).

We did live without Internet once right?