[HacktionLab] discussion on community run communication

Tue Jun 4 00:02:07 UTC 2013

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Hi,

I thought doing this dropped the nominal bit rate to increase signal
to noise so lowering the bit error rate. You would still be using the
same bandwidth but with fewer errors? I just had a quick glance at the
802.11b/g docs though, I may be talking bs. I have no test equipment
that can work in this range currently to check for spilling over into
other bands. A spectrum analyser and antennae required to work in this
range could be got for under a £1000 pounds second hand if you had
some funds.

I think a good approach would be a heterogeneous network with
"supernodes" peered together and then these nodes providing an uplink
to/from a local mesh network . It's easier for a tonne of reasons
including efficient use of the spectrum, cost of equipment etc. The
local supernode could be managed and owned etc. by the local mesh
users attached to it.

As regards your particular situation, a satellite connection shared
amongst the local community may be the way to go. The latencies are a
killer for VOIP though.

Mobile internet access is a pain: there is no easy, affordable and
universally available solution for this.

I look forward to talking with you.

Cheers,
John

On 03/06/13 17:04, ameba23 at riseup.net wrote:
> 
> thanks john for pointing this out On Sun, 2 Jun 2013, johnc wrote:
>> I'm a big fan of wireless mesh networks so am happy to see 
>> proposals for workshops etc. using this technology. There is a 
>> problem however with using the 430-440Mhz band. The bandwidth 
>> requirement is 22Mhz for 802.11b/g. You would spill over into 
>> neighbouring bands. In the UK these are already used by emergency
>> services, the MoD and others.
>> 
>> The link below is for the UK frequency allocation table.
>> 
>> http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/spectrum/spectrum-information/UKFAT_2013.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
Maybe this isn't such a good idea :-(
> you are right - bandwith is a serious problem here.
> 
> in openwrt you can set the bandwith to half or quarter or normal 
> wifi bandwidth, ive been using a bandwith of 5Mhz.  this is done by
> setting 'option chanbw 5' in /etc/config/wireless.  that said, you
> would still be limited to one or possibly two wifi channels, and
> even then it would consume a lot of the band, and any harmonics or
> mistakes with chanel selection could cause serious inteference 
> problems it true.  and 430mhz is already used for a lot of things -
> i would not dream of setting these routers up in the city.
> 
> 2.4 and 5ghz wifi is gsreat for projects in cities, and the 
> countryside if you have hills and want to use point-to-point links
>  rather than ad-hoc.  some of the links that guifi.net use are over
>  15km apart.  but what interests me would be a more rubust solution
>  for remote rural communities and also for example vehicles and 
> boats that move around, making directional antennas impratical.  I
>  would be interested to use a standard that is even lower frequency
>  and lower bandwith.  but the nice thing about 802.11 is that its 
> an already well established standard.
> 
> im wanting to experiment with this stuff but i dont want say its a 
> realistic solution.  its an idea.  ive been living in the french 
> countryside without an internet connection, but lots of time to 
> play around with radios.
> 
>> 
>> Another approach is to use plain old wifi but with innovatively 
>> designed receivers/transmitters: cantenna, woktenna etc.
>> 
>> They've achieved ranges of several kilometres. e.g. 
>> http://www.usbwifi.orconhosting.net.nz/
>> 
>> Satellite dishes can be modded easily enough also and cantennas 
>> can be combined with satellite dishes. See below.
>> 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantenna
>> 
>> Cheers, John
>> 
>> 
>> On 01/06/13 21:30, ameba23 at riseup.net wrote:
>>> Hi there,
>>> 
>>> I know its short notice, but i would like to propose a 
>>> discussion for barncamp, on community run communication 
>>> networks.  The idea is to look critically at existing 
>>> electronic communication networks (eg: interenet and mobile 
>>> phones) and identify problems, such as centralisation of 
>>> control, survaillance, advertising, environmental impact, 
>>> problems with mental health of users.
>>> 
>>> Then a discussion of different approaches to community run 
>>> alternatives. Which could include storytelling, distributing 
>>> newsletters on paper, PMR radio, CB, amateur radio, and wifi 
>>> point-to-point networks.  I have recently visited some 
>>> community wifi projects including guifi.net in catalunya and 
>>> tetaneutral in toulouse.   I would also like to propose ideas 
>>> for a mesh data network on the 430MHz amateur band.  I will be
>>>  bringing along two 430Mhz routers, with the idea to do range 
>>> tests, but I have some software problems with them and hoping 
>>> to find some help with that at the gathering.
>>> 
>>> I put on more or less the same discussion at last years chaos 
>>> communications congress in hamberg, a bit more blurb about it 
>>> is here: 
>>> https://events.ccc.de/congress/2012/wiki/Community_run_communication_networks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
also more ideas like this on my website ameba.ehion.com
>>> 
>>> let me know how it works with timetabling things thanks, peg
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________ HacktionLab 
>>> mailing list HacktionLab at lists.aktivix.org 
>>> https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/hacktionlab
>> 
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>> _______________________________________________ HacktionLab 
>> mailing list HacktionLab at lists.aktivix.org 
>> https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/hacktionlab
>> 

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