<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <p>That's kind of the point, there weren't really mistakes as such. 
      And I do think your critique on your talk was a little
      reductionist Jay, which I guess is fair, because it was just a
      talk.  What I hope to cover is something that may help us
      understand how to do things differently in the future.<br>
    </p>
    <p>As I experienced it, the main problem was people (especially
      those more on the journalism side of things) drifting away from
      the project for myriad reasons, but often to get paid work, and
      leaving just a few techs "in charge" of a platform with increasing
      less good content.  Secondly, and more importantly, it was the
      rise of Facebook, Twitter et al; the new generation of activists,
      especially in the environment movement were not engaging as much
      with alternative platforms (and tech) as did the previous
      generation of activists; Indymedia was largely built in the ambit
      of the anti-globalisation/capitalism movement, and that out of
      things like Reclaim the Streets: it was very anti-capitalism and
      having independent control over our tools.  Thirdly, Indymedia
      just couldn't keep up with the technical innovations and modern
      look and feel of the aforementioned mainstream social media
      platforms, and this put people off.<br>
    </p>
    <p>All that followed after, with arguments, paranoia, differences of
      opinion, and people debating whether it's okay to publish an
      interview with Gilat Atzmon or not, I feel was the fall-out from
      an increasingly less popular and crumbling project, and not really
      the real underlying reasons: the symptom rather than the cause in
      other words.</p>
    <p>Mike.<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 26/07/2023 17:03, Jay Baker wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:oqisjc2Nf4TtqnLPvHc4-x25JbFyRDhxebn_j_E3gFbqt8PB61aqIaayq8OyiQl1LApcHWt9DnMqIwr_4Vstt1AXDF1PM-27lmqybJxxicU=@mediaactivist.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
        <p>Haha, yes let's not do that -- if you've seen my HacktionLab
          presentation you'll know how keen I am to learn from the
          mistakes of IndyMedia!</p>
        <p>I'm really fascinated by the possibilities of the Kbin
          structure to host a Mutu-style network for UK information and
          news.</p>
        <p>If you, Sam (or anyone else reading!), would like to discuss
          this with me directly, feel free -- I'm conscious of
          potentially clogging up the list! 😀</p>
        <div class="protonmail_signature_block"
          style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
          <div class="protonmail_signature_block-user"> <span
              style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><b>Jay Baker</b></span>
            <div><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><b><i>Pronouns:
                    he/they<br>
                  </i></b></span></div>
            <div><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><b><i>Website: <a
                      title="MediaActivist.com"
                      href="https://www.mediaactivist.com/"
                      rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"
                      moz-do-not-send="true">MediaActivist.com</a><br>
                  </i></b></span></div>
            <div><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><b><i>Other
                    links: <span><a
                        title="https://allmylinks.com/mediaactivist"
                        href="https://allmylinks.com/mediaactivist"
                        rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://allmylinks.com/mediaactivist</a></span><br>
                  </i></b></span></div>
            <span><b><i><span
                    style="font-family: arial; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><span></span></span></i></b></span>
          </div>
          <div style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
          </div>
          <div class="protonmail_signature_block-proton"> Sent with <a
              target="_blank" href="https://proton.me/"
              rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">Proton
              Mail</a> secure email. </div>
        </div>
        <br>
        <br>
        ------- Original Message -------<br>
        On Tuesday, July 25th, 2023 at 18:21, <a
          href="mailto:sam@bristolwireless.net" moz-do-not-send="true"
          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sam@bristolwireless.net</a> <a
          href="mailto:sam@bristolwireless.net" moz-do-not-send="true"
          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sam@bristolwireless.net</a>
        wrote:
        <p><br>
        </p>
        <blockquote>
          <p>just be careful not to accidentally re-invent indymedia!</p>
          <p>I've found hosting kbin on <a href="http://elest.io"
              moz-do-not-send="true">elest.io</a> fairly easy.</p>
          <p>I've been playing with a service <a
              href="https://kbin.world" moz-do-not-send="true"
              class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://kbin.world</a> that
            attempts to<br>
            redirect you to the appropriate community/instance depending
            on where<br>
            you are in the world. It's quite large geographic areas at
            the moment,<br>
            but I could try and get hold of some regional IP address
            localisation<br>
            for the UK.</p>
          <p>2p</p>
          <p>Sam</p>
          <p>uoting Jay Baker <a
              href="mailto:jaybaker@mediaactivist.com"
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jaybaker@mediaactivist.com</a>:</p>
          <blockquote>
            <p>Hey Sam, thanks for this -- I'm a big fan and user of the
              fediverse,<br>
              including Kbin. I'll admit that my gut reaction to your
              message was<br>
              "Ah, that's a totally different thing, it wouldn't
              work..." and then<br>
              as I've thought about it more, I've found your suggestion
              to<br>
              actually be quite inspired! Maybe an instance dedicated to
              local<br>
              autonomous media with each locality running a different
              magazine<br>
              would fit really well! So thanks! If folks are interested
              in<br>
              discussing running such an instance, let's talk!</p>
            <p>Jay Baker<br>
              Pronouns: he/they<br>
              Website: <a href="http://MediaActivist.com"
                moz-do-not-send="true">MediaActivist.com</a></p>
            <p>Other links: <a
                href="https://allmylinks.com/mediaactivist"
                moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://allmylinks.com/mediaactivist</a></p>
            <p>Sent with Proton Mail secure email.</p>
            <p>------- Original Message -------<br>
              On Saturday, July 15th, 2023 at 17:28, <a
                href="mailto:sam@bristolwireless.net"
                moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sam@bristolwireless.net</a><br>
              <a href="mailto:sam@bristolwireless.net"
                moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sam@bristolwireless.net</a>
              wrote:</p>
            <blockquote>
              <p>I've been playing with Kbin a bit recently. It might be
                a good fit,<br>
                where local communities are a 'magazine'</p>
              <p>Kbin is a Fediverse version of a threaded /voting
                platform like<br>
                Reddit. It interoperates with Lemmy.</p>
              <p>This is a worldnews aggregator built with kbin for
                example:<br>
                <a href="https://fledd.it/" moz-do-not-send="true"
                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://fledd.it/</a></p>
              <p>Thanks</p>
              <p>Sam</p>
              <blockquote>
                <p>Jay Baker:</p>
                <blockquote>
                  <p>As I couldn't make it on the day, if anyone has any
                    questions about<br>
                    Mutu / local autonomous media based on the
                    presentation, ask away!<br>
                    I also think there are possibilities to incorporate
                    it into the<br>
                    Radar site perhaps, so Radar folks feel free to give
                    me a shot too!</p>
                </blockquote>
                <p>For sure if folks start to set up such a network we
                  can help with<br>
                  syndicating the events. It's something we already do
                  with other sites.</p>
                <p>I think it would be great if people start a mutu-like
                  network of<br>
                  independent media collectives. As I mentioned at
                  Hacktionlab please<br>
                  don't use spip (I make a point of never crapping on
                  any software<br>
                  platform - but in this case I make an exception - its
                  security is<br>
                  flawed by design). Not that I think the particular
                  software platform<br>
                  is important in this case, it's the network of people.
                  Start simple.<br>
                  Something like set of Wordpress sites, and one
                  pointing to them and<br>
                  aggregating some content, would do it.</p>
                <p>Solidarity,</p>
                <p>ekes</p>
                <p>_______________________________________________<br>
                  HacktionLab mailing list<br>
                  <a href="mailto:HacktionLab@lists.aktivix.org"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">HacktionLab@lists.aktivix.org</a><br>
                  <a
href="https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/hacktionlab"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/hacktionlab</a></p>
              </blockquote>
              <p>_______________________________________________<br>
                HacktionLab mailing list<br>
                <a href="mailto:HacktionLab@lists.aktivix.org"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">HacktionLab@lists.aktivix.org</a><br>
                <a
href="https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/hacktionlab"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/hacktionlab</a></p>
            </blockquote>
          </blockquote>
          <p>_______________________________________________<br>
            HacktionLab mailing list<br>
            <a href="mailto:HacktionLab@lists.aktivix.org"
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">HacktionLab@lists.aktivix.org</a><br>
            <a
href="https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/hacktionlab"
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/hacktionlab</a></p>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
HacktionLab mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:HacktionLab@lists.aktivix.org">HacktionLab@lists.aktivix.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/hacktionlab">https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/hacktionlab</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
---
Mike Harris

Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mike@mbharris.co.uk">mike@mbharris.co.uk</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mbharris.co.uk">https://mbharris.co.uk</a> . <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://xtreamlabnet">https://xtreamlabnet</a> . <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://elsevier.com">https://elsevier.com</a>
In: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/mbharris/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/mbharris/</a>
GitHub: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/mikebharris/">https://github.com/mikebharris/</a></pre>
  </body>
</html>