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    <p>Jay, also to follow up, when I said it was a <i>little
        reductionist</i>, I meant it, but not as a criticism of your
      talk.  In context it worked fine, and, I'm sure you are aware that
      it was much more nuanced.  I would like though, to set my own
      record straight on the topic, which will be an opinion piece for
      sure ;)<br>
    </p>
    <p>Mike.<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 01/08/2023 11:06, Mike Harris wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:5b2b0926-d807-7bee-e235-4f07297edd28@mbharris.co.uk">
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      <p>That's kind of the point, there weren't really mistakes as
        such.  And I do think your critique on your talk was a little
        reductionist Jay, which I guess is fair, because it was just a
        talk.  What I hope to cover is something that may help us
        understand how to do things differently in the future.<br>
      </p>
      <p>As I experienced it, the main problem was people (especially
        those more on the journalism side of things) drifting away from
        the project for myriad reasons, but often to get paid work, and
        leaving just a few techs "in charge" of a platform with
        increasing less good content.  Secondly, and more importantly,
        it was the rise of Facebook, Twitter et al; the new generation
        of activists, especially in the environment movement were not
        engaging as much with alternative platforms (and tech) as did
        the previous generation of activists; Indymedia was largely
        built in the ambit of the anti-globalisation/capitalism
        movement, and that out of things like Reclaim the Streets: it
        was very anti-capitalism and having independent control over our
        tools.  Thirdly, Indymedia just couldn't keep up with the
        technical innovations and modern look and feel of the
        aforementioned mainstream social media platforms, and this put
        people off.<br>
      </p>
      <p>All that followed after, with arguments, paranoia, differences
        of opinion, and people debating whether it's okay to publish an
        interview with Gilat Atzmon or not, I feel was the fall-out from
        an increasingly less popular and crumbling project, and not
        really the real underlying reasons: the symptom rather than the
        cause in other words.</p>
      <p>Mike.<br>
      </p>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 26/07/2023 17:03, Jay Baker wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:oqisjc2Nf4TtqnLPvHc4-x25JbFyRDhxebn_j_E3gFbqt8PB61aqIaayq8OyiQl1LApcHWt9DnMqIwr_4Vstt1AXDF1PM-27lmqybJxxicU=@mediaactivist.com">
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          <p>Haha, yes let's not do that -- if you've seen my
            HacktionLab presentation you'll know how keen I am to learn
            from the mistakes of IndyMedia!</p>
          <p>I'm really fascinated by the possibilities of the Kbin
            structure to host a Mutu-style network for UK information
            and news.</p>
          <p>If you, Sam (or anyone else reading!), would like to
            discuss this with me directly, feel free -- I'm conscious of
            potentially clogging up the list! 😀</p>
          <div class="protonmail_signature_block"
            style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
            <div class="protonmail_signature_block-user"> <span
                style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><b>Jay Baker</b></span>
              <div><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><b><i>Pronouns:
                      he/they<br>
                    </i></b></span></div>
              <div><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><b><i>Website:
                      <a title="MediaActivist.com"
                        href="https://www.mediaactivist.com/"
                        rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"
                        moz-do-not-send="true">MediaActivist.com</a><br>
                    </i></b></span></div>
              <div><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><b><i>Other
                      links: <span><a
                          title="https://allmylinks.com/mediaactivist"
                          href="https://allmylinks.com/mediaactivist"
                          rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://allmylinks.com/mediaactivist</a></span><br>
                    </i></b></span></div>
              <span><b><i><span
style="font-family: arial; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><span></span></span></i></b></span>
            </div>
            <div
              style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br>
            </div>
            <div class="protonmail_signature_block-proton"> Sent with <a
                target="_blank" href="https://proton.me/"
                rel="noopener noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">Proton
                Mail</a> secure email. </div>
          </div>
          <br>
          <br>
          ------- Original Message -------<br>
          On Tuesday, July 25th, 2023 at 18:21, <a
            href="mailto:sam@bristolwireless.net" moz-do-not-send="true"
            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sam@bristolwireless.net</a> <a
            href="mailto:sam@bristolwireless.net" moz-do-not-send="true"
            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sam@bristolwireless.net</a>
          wrote:
          <p><br>
          </p>
          <blockquote>
            <p>just be careful not to accidentally re-invent indymedia!</p>
            <p>I've found hosting kbin on <a href="http://elest.io"
                moz-do-not-send="true">elest.io</a> fairly easy.</p>
            <p>I've been playing with a service <a
                href="https://kbin.world" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://kbin.world</a>
              that attempts to<br>
              redirect you to the appropriate community/instance
              depending on where<br>
              you are in the world. It's quite large geographic areas at
              the moment,<br>
              but I could try and get hold of some regional IP address
              localisation<br>
              for the UK.</p>
            <p>2p</p>
            <p>Sam</p>
            <p>uoting Jay Baker <a
                href="mailto:jaybaker@mediaactivist.com"
                moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jaybaker@mediaactivist.com</a>:</p>
            <blockquote>
              <p>Hey Sam, thanks for this -- I'm a big fan and user of
                the fediverse,<br>
                including Kbin. I'll admit that my gut reaction to your
                message was<br>
                "Ah, that's a totally different thing, it wouldn't
                work..." and then<br>
                as I've thought about it more, I've found your
                suggestion to<br>
                actually be quite inspired! Maybe an instance dedicated
                to local<br>
                autonomous media with each locality running a different
                magazine<br>
                would fit really well! So thanks! If folks are
                interested in<br>
                discussing running such an instance, let's talk!</p>
              <p>Jay Baker<br>
                Pronouns: he/they<br>
                Website: <a href="http://MediaActivist.com"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">MediaActivist.com</a></p>
              <p>Other links: <a
                  href="https://allmylinks.com/mediaactivist"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://allmylinks.com/mediaactivist</a></p>
              <p>Sent with Proton Mail secure email.</p>
              <p>------- Original Message -------<br>
                On Saturday, July 15th, 2023 at 17:28, <a
                  href="mailto:sam@bristolwireless.net"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sam@bristolwireless.net</a><br>
                <a href="mailto:sam@bristolwireless.net"
                  moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">sam@bristolwireless.net</a>
                wrote:</p>
              <blockquote>
                <p>I've been playing with Kbin a bit recently. It might
                  be a good fit,<br>
                  where local communities are a 'magazine'</p>
                <p>Kbin is a Fediverse version of a threaded /voting
                  platform like<br>
                  Reddit. It interoperates with Lemmy.</p>
                <p>This is a worldnews aggregator built with kbin for
                  example:<br>
                  <a href="https://fledd.it/" moz-do-not-send="true"
                    class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://fledd.it/</a></p>
                <p>Thanks</p>
                <p>Sam</p>
                <blockquote>
                  <p>Jay Baker:</p>
                  <blockquote>
                    <p>As I couldn't make it on the day, if anyone has
                      any questions about<br>
                      Mutu / local autonomous media based on the
                      presentation, ask away!<br>
                      I also think there are possibilities to
                      incorporate it into the<br>
                      Radar site perhaps, so Radar folks feel free to
                      give me a shot too!</p>
                  </blockquote>
                  <p>For sure if folks start to set up such a network we
                    can help with<br>
                    syndicating the events. It's something we already do
                    with other sites.</p>
                  <p>I think it would be great if people start a
                    mutu-like network of<br>
                    independent media collectives. As I mentioned at
                    Hacktionlab please<br>
                    don't use spip (I make a point of never crapping on
                    any software<br>
                    platform - but in this case I make an exception -
                    its security is<br>
                    flawed by design). Not that I think the particular
                    software platform<br>
                    is important in this case, it's the network of
                    people. Start simple.<br>
                    Something like set of Wordpress sites, and one
                    pointing to them and<br>
                    aggregating some content, would do it.</p>
                  <p>Solidarity,</p>
                  <p>ekes</p>
                  <p>_______________________________________________<br>
                    HacktionLab mailing list<br>
                    <a href="mailto:HacktionLab@lists.aktivix.org"
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">HacktionLab@lists.aktivix.org</a><br>
                    <a
href="https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/hacktionlab"
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/hacktionlab</a></p>
                </blockquote>
                <p>_______________________________________________<br>
                  HacktionLab mailing list<br>
                  <a href="mailto:HacktionLab@lists.aktivix.org"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">HacktionLab@lists.aktivix.org</a><br>
                  <a
href="https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/hacktionlab"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/hacktionlab</a></p>
              </blockquote>
            </blockquote>
            <p>_______________________________________________<br>
              HacktionLab mailing list<br>
              <a href="mailto:HacktionLab@lists.aktivix.org"
                moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">HacktionLab@lists.aktivix.org</a><br>
              <a
href="https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/hacktionlab"
                moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/hacktionlab</a></p>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
        <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
        <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
HacktionLab mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
        href="mailto:HacktionLab@lists.aktivix.org"
        moz-do-not-send="true">HacktionLab@lists.aktivix.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
        href="https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/hacktionlab"
        moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/hacktionlab</a>
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
---
Mike Harris

Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
      href="mailto:mike@mbharris.co.uk" moz-do-not-send="true">mike@mbharris.co.uk</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mbharris.co.uk"
      moz-do-not-send="true">https://mbharris.co.uk</a> . <a
      class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://xtreamlabnet"
      moz-do-not-send="true">https://xtreamlabnet</a> . <a
      class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://elsevier.com"
      moz-do-not-send="true">https://elsevier.com</a>
In: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
      href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/mbharris/"
      moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.linkedin.com/in/mbharris/</a>
GitHub: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
      href="https://github.com/mikebharris/" moz-do-not-send="true">https://github.com/mikebharris/</a></pre>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
HacktionLab mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:HacktionLab@lists.aktivix.org">HacktionLab@lists.aktivix.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/hacktionlab">https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/hacktionlab</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
---
Mike Harris

Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mike@mbharris.co.uk">mike@mbharris.co.uk</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mbharris.co.uk">https://mbharris.co.uk</a> . <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://xtreamlabnet">https://xtreamlabnet</a> . <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://elsevier.com">https://elsevier.com</a>
In: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/mbharris/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/mbharris/</a>
GitHub: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/mikebharris/">https://github.com/mikebharris/</a></pre>
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