[LAF] LAF 3

[Joy Wood]

1. you're welcome and
2. for the rest, yep



>From: steve ash <steveash_2001 at yahoo.co.uk>
>To: laf at lists.aktivix.org
>Subject: [LAF] LAF 3
>Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 23:57:26 +0100 (BST)
>
>Thanks to Justin and Joy for their supporting posts.
>
>I agree that we should fix dates but request after 3rd
>Sept it be the second and fourth Saturday of the month
>and preferably starting at 2pm (if those in touch with
>Freedom say it has to be a Saturday that is). I can at
>least attempt to attend on a semi regular basis then,
>rather than it being a near impossibility. I also
>think that, unless one of the other regulars finds it
>too awkward, we should also have social /general
>discussion meetings at the RFH on Fridays. I'm
>agnostic as to how regular that will be, I could
>attend most Fridays but not all, though past social
>have generally been poorly attended. The RFH has the
>added beneifit of the view and being in public but in
>a normally quiet environment (with only occassional
>piped classical music during concerts). We could also
>rotate venues if the meetings were weekly (if that was
>sustainable, which I doubt).
>
>I was planning a new discussion group there anyway, if
>I had time, so perhaps this would be the next best
>thing.
>
>As to Christians post on the purpose of the LAF, I
>generally concur, but would add that the group is
>really like an onion. The kernal of a small number
>of regulars, mostly experienced, dedicated and
>knowledgable anarchists (with connections to the
>broader movement) is what has always stabilised and
>anchored the group, and provided much of its content,
>since Kropotkin and the original founders of Freedom
>Press created our precursor almost a hundred years
>ago. This was also the basis of the first LAF of the
>1980's, as far as I understand, and it certainly was
>when I joined in the mid 90's. This fact not only
>serves the group but also the needs of the central
>individuals in forming a basis for the exchange of
>ideas and general interaction.
>Outside this is a circle of relative newcomers who are
>learning about anarchism, as I did when I joined in
>the 90s, and drawing their own conclusions (which may
>or may not include becoming part of the kernal as I
>eventually did). These maybe regulars or infrequent
>attendees. There are also many who bridge these two
>circles. Beyond this are the occassional anarchist and
>fellow traveller visitors, and the general public who
>are merely curious and mostly will not return (but are
>very important even if they only attend once).
>Outreach is our interface with the world and so
>crucial to what we do as well, but not at the expense
>of the central core of members.
>
>This might sound hierarchical on a superficial
>reading, but given the nature of the group this is not
>really true, and the order merely serves to hold the
>group together and perpetuate it coherently.
>Given that we should really give priority to the core
>group first, or we will become a random gathering of
>talking heads, and lose our identity and functionality
>as an anarchist / left libertarian discussion group
>with a good grounding in an historical political
>movement.
>
>Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>--- laf-request at lists.aktivix.org wrote:
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> > Today's Topics:
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> >    1. Re: LAF2 (Joy Wood)
> >    2. Re: LAF2 (christian michel)
> >
> >
> >
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 21:34:58 +0000
> > From: "Joy Wood" <joy_helbin at hotmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [LAF] LAF2
> > To: hooper_jackson at yahoo.com, laf at lists.aktivix.org
> > Message-ID:
> > <BAY102-F99600E15BAE3E430757AEE8B70 at phx.gbl>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
> >
> > Yeh, I agree with what Justin says and what Steve
> > says.  I do not think
> > there was any slight intended to Steve by picking a
> > first and third Saturday
> > instead of something more convenient for Steve.  I
> > think it was a case of
> > picking anything at all and going with it, instead
> > of just emailing back and
> > forth and back and forth and ending up with no
> > meetings arranged at all.
> > Having said that, the dates chosen ARE less
> > convenient for Steve so how
> > about, since Ed has only booked 3 September so far,
> > if Ed books FP for 23
> > September and thereafter for the rest of the year we
> > go for the 2nd and 4th
> > Saturdays???  And Steve can pick some Fridays for
> > meeting at the Overdraught
> > or RFH???
> >
> >
> > >From: justin <hooper_jackson at yahoo.com>
> > >To: LAF LIST <laf at lists.aktivix.org>
> > >Subject: Re: [LAF] LAF2
> > >Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 06:54:50 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > >"I think the whole group would greatly suffer with
> > out
> > >me..."
> > >
> > >i think it's a great shame that what Steve says is
> > true
> > >here, yet he himself was the one who had to say it!
> > >Anyone remember mutual support/solidarity, etc.?
> > >
> > >(not sure if Steve was being self deprecatingly
> > >ironic by saying this, i don't think he was, and i
> > think what
> > >he says is true, and yet, to repeat, no one else
> > >said it!)
> > >
> > >i mean the point is that Steve is one of the few
> > ppl
> > >who's been a regualar over the past nth years, and
> > also
> > >contributed to talks and the running of
> > discussions...
> > >and also has a good base in anarchist politics...
> > >- there is not really anyone else who fits all
> > these
> > >LAF credentials within LAF!...
> > >
> > >i think having regulars is good, and also having a
> > reasonable
> > >base within anarchism is good, too... Outreach is
> > important
> > >as well,
> > >but not to the detriment of destroying the
> > anarchist base
> > >which is the point of the thing in the first
> > place... I mean
> > >you need a sturdy, sustainable base to outreach in
> > the first place!
> > >
> > >So, i think publicity should be first and foremost
> > directed inwards
> > >towards anarchists and anti-authoritarians...
> > >A question to ask is why has the LAF apparently
> > shrunk over recent years?
> > >(Well since the late 90's as far as i can tell - i
> > seem to remember
> > >hearing that some primitivists became regualars -
> > did that put everyone
> > >else
> > >off?! Maybe 1 or 2 peripherally involved
> > individuals effectively
> > >put ppl off around that time too?)...
> > >
> > >(Maybe
> > >any general outward publicity is no bad thing -
> > you'll only
> > >get a few ppl here and there from the various
> > hopefully
> > >diverse sectors you're putting your publicity in -
> > altho i
> > >think the more diverse the advertising the better
> > >- you don't want to rely on one or 2 sources...)
> > >
> > >Have not caught up with the other posts yet - so
> > will go thru them...
> > >But thought i should really respond to this post...
> > >
> > >Justin
> > >
> > >--- steve ash <steveash_2001 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Not very happy with current developments now
> > I've had
> > > > time to think about them. As one of the last
> > real
> > > > anarchists left in the LAF, I can only think of
> > two
> > > > other regular attendees, I'm not really happy at
> > all
> > > > with the present ideas now I think about it and
> > I
> > > > think the whole group would greatly suffer with
> > out
> > > > me, though I still have plans of my own. If the
> > > > meetings were on the 2nd and 4th of each month
> > or
> > > > something and started at 2pm rather than 3pm I
> > might
> > > > be able to attend on at least a monthly basis.
> > As it
> > > > is the LAF is already isolated from the
> > anarchist
> > > > movement and I'd rather work on a project that
> > brought
> > > > an anarchist discussion group closer into the
> > > > mainstream of the anarchist movement.
> > >
> > >__________________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 07:55:06 +0100
> > From: christian michel <chr.michel at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [LAF] LAF2
> > To: steve ash <steveash_2001 at yahoo.co.uk>
> > Cc: laf at lists.aktivix.org
> > Message-ID:
> > <df2c327a050821235537ac7bed at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> >
> >  To answer Steve's direct question, why I hv chosen
> > the first and third Sat
> > in the month, it's only because I wrote the msg. It
> > was time to discuss
> > concrete dates, and that's the ones that came up
> > with. If it's 2nd and
> > 4thor any evening in the week, fine, but at least we
> > are now tabling
> > concrete
> > proposals.
> >
> >  Regarding the more general question in Justin's
> > message, I hv the greatest
> > respect for Steve's contributions. I hv said so in
> > one of my posts. He is
> > much more a LAF person than I am or ever will be.
> > The question here, I
> > think, is what is LAF's purpose. Following our
> > earlier discussions at FP, I
> > believed it was a forum open to all where people
> > explore and debate issues
> > of the day (science, war, music, media, education… )
> > in a different light
> > from that of the dominant ideology. With 'anarchist'
> > in the name, there can
> > be no mistake as to the frame of reference. I have
> > no reservation therefore
> > to invite lots of people (as LAF was doing when it
> > was advertising in Time
> > Out). What's on the label is what people will get. A
> > vast majority of them
> > will probably find it too extreme for their taste,
> > so they won't come. At
> > least they will learn that there exists out there an
> > intellectually active
> > and vibrant anarchist movement.
> >
> >  It was my understanding that LAF's purpose was not
> > solely to discuss
> > anarchist issues amongst committed card-carrying
> > anarchist ('are free-masons
> > hijacking the anarchist movements?') or to plan
> > actions (participation in
> > this or that campaign). These topics fall outside
> > the purpose of a
> > discussion group open to all, I would think.
> >
> >  I may well be completely wrong in my understanding
> > of what LAF is all
> > about. In which case, I happily apologise for the
> > suggestions made.
> >
> >  If every one's understanding, however, is more or
> > less what I outlined
> > above, we're back to the topic of days and venues. I
> > personally like the
> > idea of FP, it has the right atmosphere,
> > participants would be giving their
> > money to comrades and a few might buy books. The
> > prob is opening times. If
> > we could get FP to give us access on a weekday
> > evening, would it not solve
> > Steve's and others' problem?
> >
> >  That's where I stand on this whole question. If I
> > miss something, pse tell
> > me.
> >
> >  Christian
> >
> >
> > On 21/08/05, Joy Wood <joy_helbin at hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Yeh, I agree with what Justin says and what Steve
> > says. I do not think
> > > there was any slight intended to Steve by picking
> > a first and third
> > > Saturday
> > > instead of something more convenient for Steve. I
> > think it was a case of
> > > picking anything at all and going with it, instead
> > of just emailing back
> > > and
> > > forth and back and forth and ending up with no
> > meetings arranged at all.
> > > Having said that, the dates chosen ARE less
> > convenient for Steve so how
> > > about, since Ed has only booked 3 September so
> > far, if Ed books FP for 23
> > > September and thereafter for the rest of the year
> > we go for the 2nd and
> > > 4th
> > > Saturdays??? And Steve can pick some Fridays for
> > meeting at the
> > > Overdraught
> > > or RFH???
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: justin <hooper_jackson at yahoo.com>
> > > >To: LAF LIST <laf at lists.aktivix.org>
> > > >Subject: Re: [LAF] LAF2
> > > >Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 06:54:50 -0700 (PDT)
> > > >
> > > >"I think the whole group would greatly suffer
> > with out
> > > >me..."
> > > >
> > > >i think it's a great shame that what Steve says
> > is true
> > > >here, yet he himself was the one who had to say
> > it!
> > > >Anyone remember mutual support/solidarity, etc.?
> > > >
> > > >(not sure if Steve was being self deprecatingly
> > > >ironic by saying this, i don't think he was, and
> > i think what
> > > >he says is true, and yet, to repeat, no one else
> > > >said it!)
> > > >
> > > >i mean the point is that Steve is one of the few
> > ppl
> > > >who's been a regualar over the past nth years,
> > and also
> > > >contributed to talks and the running of
> > discussions...
> > > >and also has a good base in anarchist politics...
> > > >- there is not really anyone else who fits all
> > these
> > > >LAF credentials within LAF!...
> > > >
> > > >i think having regulars is good, and also having
> > a reasonable
> > > >base within anarchism is good, too... Outreach is
> > important
> > > >as well,
> > > >but not to the detriment of destroying the
> > anarchist base
> > > >which is the point of the thing in the first
> > place... I mean
> > > >you need a sturdy, sustainable base to outreach
> > in the first place!
> > > >
> > > >So, i think publicity should be first and
> > foremost directed inwards
> > > >towards anarchists and anti-authoritarians...
> > > >A question to ask is why has the LAF apparently
> > shrunk over recent years?
> > > >(Well since the late 90's as far as i can tell -
> > i seem to remember
> > > >hearing that some primitivists became regualars -
> > did that put everyone
> > > >else
> > > >off?! Maybe 1 or 2 peripherally involved
> > individuals effectively
> > > >put ppl off around that time too?)...
> > > >
> > > >(Maybe
> > > >any general outward publicity is no bad thing -
> > you'll only
> > > >get a few ppl here and there from the various
> > hopefully
> > > >diverse sectors you're putting your publicity in
> > - altho i
> > > >think the more diverse the advertising the better
> > > >- you don't want to rely on one or 2 sources...)
> > > >
> > > >Have not caught up with the other posts yet - so
> > will go thru them...
> > > >But thought i should really respond to this
> > post...
> > > >
> > > >Justin
> > > >
> > > >--- steve ash <steveash_2001 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Not very happy with current developments now
> > I've had
> > > > > time to think about them. As one of the last
> > real
> > > > > anarchists left in the LAF, I can only think
> > of two
> > > > > other regular attendees, I'm not really happy
> > at all
> > > > > with the present ideas now I think about it
> > and I
> > > > > think the whole group would greatly suffer
> > with out
> > > > > me, though I still have plans of my own. If
> > the
> > > > > meetings were on the 2nd and 4th of each month
> > or
> > > > > something and started at 2pm rather than 3pm I
> > might
> > > > > be able to attend on at least a monthly basis.
> > As it
> > > > > is the LAF is already isolated from the
> > anarchist
> > > > > movement and I'd rather work on a project that
> > brought
> > > > > an anarchist discussion group closer into the
> > > > > mainstream of the anarchist movement.
> > > >
> > >
> > >__________________________________________________
> > > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > protection around
> > > >http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >LAF mailing list
> > > >LAF at lists.aktivix.org
> > > >http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/laf
> > >
> > >
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> >
> > End of LAF Digest, Vol 6, Issue 25
> > **********************************
> >
>
>
>
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