[LAF] LAF transcript (with typo correction) :)
steve ash
steveash_2001 at yahoo.co.uk
Sat Jul 2 07:39:44 UTC 2005
It took me longer than I thought to get the transcript
together. Rather than post it now and get it swamped
in G8 news I think it might be more apt after G8 now?
Steve
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. notes from Saturday discussion (steve ash)
> 2. RE: notes from Saturday discussion (Bailey,DJ
> (pgr))
>
>
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 01:36:53 +0100 (BST)
> From: steve ash <steveash_2001 at yahoo.co.uk>
> Subject: [LAF] notes from Saturday discussion
> To: laf at lists.aktivix.org
> Message-ID:
>
<20050627003653.49419.qmail at web25708.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Here's my memory of some of the points after my
> talk,
> can anyone remember any more, or correct any
> mistakes
> in my memory?
>
> I'll post with transcript to Indymedia on Wednesday.
>
>
>
> Point 1 The System is not closed in the sense it
> never
> changes but continues to evolve in response to
> changing conditions and opposition to it.
>
> Point 2 The system absorbs everything and turns it
> to
> its own advantage.
>
> Point 3 It contains contradictions already and can
> only absorb so much before these become untenable.
>
> Point 4 Activism does have small successes and we
> can
> build on these with each successive action.
>
> Point 5 Are these real successes?
>
> Point 6 Successful activism is often that with a
> specific goal, and one that doesn’t challenge the
> system (i.e. pressure in legal cases etc) rather
> than
> in general radical demonstrations like
> anti-globalist
> events.
>
> Point 7 This works because it reinforces the
> illusion
> of democracy, without changing very much, so it is
> not
> seriously opposed by the establishment, in fact they
> need it to happen. We can work with non-anarchists
> on
> this level.
>
> Point 8 But should anarchists put all their efforts
> into such reformist campaigns?
>
> Point 9 Small local issues can be shown to be part
> of
> a bigger picture, namely the
> politico-economic-ideological culture that shapes
> everything.
>
> Point 10 We need counter events that inspire and
> show
> alternative ways of existence not ‘demos’ or
> ‘blockades’.
>
> Point 11 We already have these and they are part of
> the G8 demos.
>
> Point 12 Yes, but are they open to all are just the
> ‘activist clique’
>
> Point 13 We are over intellectualising and should
> just
> act
>
> Point 14 That’s the problem we act with out thought
> to
> what we are doing.
>
> Point 15 Free Will is overrated we are all largely
> just automatons pre-programmed by the system, we
> need
> to break away.
>
> Point 16 The Ruling Class, Middle Class and Working
> Class are all part of Capitalist Society and are the
> three pillars that support it, we need to step
> otside
> of society and pull down all three pillars, both
> externally and within ourselves.
>
> Point 17 This going outside of society is not easy,
> it
> is akin to debrainwashing ourselves.
>
> Point 18 It can happen in ‘revolutionary’
> situations.
>
> Point 19 We can rationally decide on a strategy to
> derationalise and make the revolution entirely
> subjective in the moment.
>
> Point 20 We represent no one but ourselves in this.
>
> Point 21 The revolution will not happen yet we have
> to
> work on other issues first
>
> Point 22 That’s the problem, if we think that we
> never
> will, the revolution is now and has no end.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 01:54:23 +0100
> From: "Bailey,DJ (pgr)" <D.J.Bailey at lse.ac.uk>
> Subject: RE: [LAF] notes from Saturday discussion
> To: <laf at lists.aktivix.org>
> Message-ID:
>
<3D03E12F098CDD488F8D11BD873B3ECB0371ED67 at exs1.backup>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> hi,
>
> this looks like a really interesting discussion, and
> a shame I couldn't join.
>
> the conclusions sound rather pessimistic, though.
>
> The general drift of the discussion seems to fit
> pretty well with some stuff I've been reading lately
> by Deleuze and Guattari.
>
> They basically argue that the aim of revolutionary
> activity should be the pursuit of desire, which in
> its myriad forms will be unsustainable within a
> grand system. Thus, it is the dissolution of the
> system, through the divergent, muliple and disparate
> pursuits of desire, that will overcome the existing
> forms of oppression and control that exist in our
> current grand structures.
>
> This sounds pretty reasonable, and overcomes many of
> the problems identified in the discussion
> (especially the reproduction of structures of
> domination through acts of resistance, the inability
> to completely remove oneself from the present, and
> the restriction of revolutionary activity to those
> within the revolutionary sect).
>
> what this means in practice, of course, is not
> entirely clear...
>
> whilst it is unable to prescribe particular actions,
> it is able to provide us with a perspective
> according to which we can assess whether we are
> acting to support, sustain or challenge the existing
> structures of control. i think this must be of some
> use
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: steve ash [mailto:steveash_2001 at yahoo.co.uk]
> Sent: Mon 27/06/2005 01:36
> To: laf at lists.aktivix.org
> Cc:
> Subject: [LAF] notes from Saturday discussion
>
>
>
> Here's my memory of some of the points after my
> talk,
> can anyone remember any more, or correct any
> mistakes
> in my memory?
>
> I'll post with transcript to Indymedia on
> Wednesday.
>
>
>
> Point 1 The System is not closed in the sense it
> never
> changes but continues to evolve in response to
> changing conditions and opposition to it.
>
> Point 2 The system absorbs everything and turns it
> to
> its own advantage.
>
> Point 3 It contains contradictions already and can
> only absorb so much before these become untenable.
>
> Point 4 Activism does have small successes and we
> can
> build on these with each successive action.
>
> Point 5 Are these real successes?
>
> Point 6 Successful activism is often that with a
> specific goal, and one that doesn’t challenge the
> system (i.e. pressure in legal cases etc) rather
> than
> in general radical demonstrations like
> anti-globalist
> events.
>
> Point 7 This works because it reinforces the
> illusion
> of democracy, without changing very much, so it is
> not
> seriously opposed by the establishment, in fact
> they
> need it to happen. We can work with non-anarchists
> on
> this level.
>
> Point 8 But should anarchists put all their efforts
> into such reformist campaigns?
>
> Point 9 Small local issues can be shown to be part
> of
> a bigger picture, namely the
> politico-economic-ideological culture that shapes
> everything.
>
> Point 10 We need counter events that inspire and
> show
> alternative ways of existence not ‘demos’ or
> ‘blockades’.
>
> Point 11 We already have these and they are part of
> the G8 demos.
>
> Point 12 Yes, but are they open to all are just the
> ‘activist clique’
>
> Point 13 We are over intellectualising and should
> just
> act
>
> Point 14 That’s the problem we act with out
> thought to
> what we are doing.
>
> Point 15 Free Will is overrated we are all largely
> just automatons pre-programmed by the system, we
> need
> to break away.
>
> Point 16 The Ruling Class, Middle Class and Working
> Class are all part of Capitalist Society and are
> the
> three pillars that support it, we need to step
> otside
> of society and pull down all three pillars, both
> externally and within ourselves.
>
> Point 17 This going outside of society is not easy,
> it
> is akin to debrainwashing ourselves.
>
> Point 18 It can happen in ‘revolutionary’
> situations.
>
> Point 19 We can rationally decide on a strategy to
> derationalise and make the revolution entirely
> subjective in the moment.
>
> Point 20 We represent no one but ourselves in this.
>
> Point 21 The revolution will not happen yet we have
> to
> work on other issues first
>
> Point 22 That’s the problem, if we think that we
> never
> will, the revolution is now and has no end.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> End of LAF Digest, Vol 4, Issue 19
> **********************************
>
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