[LAF] Tube party!2

[steve ash]

Not sure whose statements are whose below, I've thrown
in a few of my own comments behind a +

 
--- Ed McArthur <antines at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:


---------------------------------

Volodya

 

You  must have pressed reply rather than reply all as
your reply only came to me

(others see below)

 

Empowering people is a long term project ( and how do
we empower people who dont want to be empowered
anyway))

+ I think power is a basic psychological drive in all
sane people (power seen as control over life and
improving it) so everyone would at root want to be
empowered. Of course there are infantilist and
psychological blocks to this but these are social
constructions are not part of any essential nature so
are within our power to change. Individuals can change
over night, collective change is slower but can be
tied in to collective action and experience.  As for
the practicalities of empowerment theres no reason why
it couldn't happen tommorrow if the collective will
was there. I'm very suspicious of gradualism.  

+On 'selfish individualism', I'm afraid thats human
nature, anarchism can only work by sublimating it into
'enlightened self-interest'. There's no such thing as
altruism outside of idealistic fantasies, even empathy
is 'selfish' ;)  
 

   in the short term

racism has to be dealt with, as in stoping as far as
is possible racist assaults or just aggressive
behaviour when people just want to get from A to B

+Yes, thats part of individual collective
responsibility, for instance a racist on a train would
be attacked by the rest of the passengers if there was
a communal consciousness and individual understanding.
We don't have this kind of communalism, but
spontaneous parties with strangers in public places is
one way to help create it. Its all about self interest
of course.

  
I am not saying state intervention is the answer but 
lets say the train service was under workers control

+ I don't think a public service should be under the
sole control of the providers, the users should be
involved too. Its not like a craftsman and a client
its part of a social infrastructure. So there needs to
be a workers co-op and a users council in control (one
that represents all users).    

Why would the people who run them not have the right 
to lay down rules for that space?

Anarchist are not opposed to rules as such as far as I
understand it   a group running a vegan space are
entitled for example to insist that people dont come
in and start eating meat because it is their "right"

+I agree with ?? here, though I don't think its a
matter of insistance I think its a matter of respect.
The group asks the users not to eat meat in a vegan
space, if they do they are disrespecting the group and
entering into a hostile relationship plus con
sequences. Likewise if a group designates a space a
'drinking space' it can ask everyone to do the same or
leave, and I think in the circumstances of social
oppression and one night a year and train frequency,
imposition is allowable lol  

 

There is another point : What about the workers who
have to clean up the vomit and worst? What about  the
medical workers ?

+I'm not sure what this refers to. The party? Don't
think any of that applies, never seen anything like
that happen, its all good clean fun, with people
respecting the space. Party 'stewards' usually deal
with any minority anti-social elements. Probably
happens on an individual basis every night, in a non
communal context, where people feel alienated and so
lack respect.


This is the real world as it is  not the  other world
that is   (or might be) possible to get to that world
there has to be a profound change in the human heart
and no that cannot come from above, but meanwhile
practical problems do require practical soloutions 

here now today,

+I don't think things are as bad as that, anarchy is
still the root nature of our society, it has just been
distorted by the straight jacket around it and the few
sociopaths who can aversely effect an atomised
society. Remove the constraints and awaken the social
instincts and you have anarchy. Use the methods of the
State and you back this more difficult. 
 

That is why allthough my default position is to oppose
state intervention there are circumstances where it
may be the lesser of two evils

+I think its always the worse of two evils.

+ Authoritarianism is based on a repressed psychology

+ Its not drugs that divide a community its illegal
drugs and criminality, answer legalise it... 

We should   talk about this at an LAF meeting

+ yes

 

 


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