[LAF] Re Re On Porn And The Sex Industry

Wed Jul 22 21:29:06 UTC 2009

Me too, Ed

I don't buy it either

Joy

Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:25:38 +0000
From: antines at yahoo.co.uk
To: steveash_2001 at yahoo.co.uk; laf at lists.aktivix.org
Subject: [LAF] Re Re On Porn And The Sex Industry

Steve,
I   too  assume that in a genuine anarchist society there would be no need for prison but non of us will live to see that

I  never realised  you could be so ruthless,  but I did say in an earlier post that some anarchists have advocated execution as an alternative to prison

My  "soft"  island (or soft hotel ) solution  was meant as a
 practical alternative to the present day punishment brigade and the No More Prison camp but no alternatives for the present day camp , andI think I will stand by it as a libertarian solution  to the practical problem of dangerous and anti social behavior

On the one hand  I recognize that this is cause by the present society on the other I recognize the need for a practical rather than Utopian solution to real problems faced by real people
Anarchist being middle class don't live in the real world

When I stopped being an anarcho-capitalist and became a limited state Free Market it was because  I had concluded that a society could be anarcho-capitalist but not libertarian in fact very un libertarian 
I  later became a socialist- anarchist  but it seems the same applies to them so  I now myself as a libertarian-socialist with a philosophical
commitment to  an anarchist society  in the long long term

I see the sex industry as being both exploitative and degrading
As for the matter of "choice"  well  that was the justification for imposing market solutions on the public sector which has been the cause of so much hard ship

In  Societies like Thailand  where there is more porn and prostitution available the attitude to women is much more negative,  the existence  of same anywhere is a reflection of the ideas of woman having the primary role of pleasing men sexually, 
This is why men go off to places like Thailand  as sex tourists
often because they want under age girls, also they want woman who they see as more submissive,    "Choice" here is   meaningless so I am all for targeting men who go abroad as sexual tourists  and all for targeting the employers and customers of the sex industry  (We are talking about a muli billion $ world wide business here , it depends for its continuation on current male attitudes to woman remember that the next time yiou see some smart suited type defending porn on grounds of free speech
(Although I regret flirting with anarcho-capitalism  it did teach me a lot)

I  still 
don't understand why defending porn and prostitution is such a priority for anarchist men except as a reflection of their negative attitude to Women  and I accuse anarchist men of not being willing to make the effort to throw off 
tthe  conditioning that promotes theses attitudes

the negative attitudes to Gays and ethnic minorities  have 
largely 
but not completely
been  overcome but no progress appears to have been made with regard  to attitudes to  women, if anything it has become worst
 beacause
Whereas before men were openly misogynistic and defended the idea that woman should be treated as second classs citizens
which made it easy to argue against  such rediculous attitudes
now they use the language of rights and freedom to justify the
same  attitude,they even try to claim it enhances the womans choices

Well I dont buy into it however you want to dress it up

Ed

============================================
Ed, I suspect your island prison solution the islands would have to be bigger than the mainland because most people would be there.

But seriously, where do you think these offenders come from, of course they are a product of society and would not exist in an anarchist society, IMO in any transitory state they would simply not be allowed to survive, either through their execution or because the anti-social would not be part of any society and therefore have any food or shelter provisions. I think you're being soft on them by giving them a nice cozy island to live on. I agree there's a problem with 'liberal anarchism' and 'anarcho-pacifism' but it seems to me that ur also still partly an example of it. Any real anarchist society would have to be a little more ruthless than that to survive.

I also note you slipped from exploited to degraded in this post. The issue of explotion is one of coersion or abuse not 'degradation'. Degradation is entirely subjective and often reveals a sex negative attitude (for instance that objectification of a person is in some way a bad thing, when all genders do it to all other genders as often as they subjectify them, this being a part of human nature), and this smacks of somekind of unrealistic idealisation of humanity. Some people even enjoy being 'degraded' and if they do and chose it freely they are not experiencing degradation in any real sense. The only person who can judge whether they are degraded or not is the person themselves, so we return to free choice.  

Ed McArthur   07981  900  563            

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www.freewebs.com/secularcivilrights

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