[LAF] LAF Digest, Vol 53, Issue 31
Joy Wood
joy_helbin at hotmail.com
Thu Jul 30 21:58:43 UTC 2009
"The arguement is not that human nature is rapacious"
Steve
I must have misunderstood your email of 16 July 2009 timed at 22:11:16 when you said "the vast majority of modern people are potential murderers and rapists"
Joy
> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 17:34:06 +0000
> From: steveash_2001 at yahoo.co.uk
> To: laf at lists.aktivix.org
> Subject: Re: [LAF] LAF Digest, Vol 53, Issue 31
>
>
> The arguement is not that human nature is rapacious, simply that people still make biased choices over who they have sex with, I'm defending the handicapped and the mingers (a concept that will alas still exist for several generations after the revolution).
>
> --- On Fri, 24/7/09, laf-request at lists.aktivix.org <laf-request at lists.aktivix.org> wrote:
>
> > From: laf-request at lists.aktivix.org <laf-request at lists.aktivix.org>
> > Subject: LAF Digest, Vol 53, Issue 31
> > To: laf at lists.aktivix.org
> > Date: Friday, 24 July, 2009, 12:00 PM
> > Send LAF mailing list submissions to
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> > than "Re: Contents of LAF digest..."
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> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re Re: rights (Ed McArthur)
> > 2. IUSW site (VolodyA! V Anarhist)
> > 3. Re: IUSW site (Ian Gregory)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:58:06 +0000 (GMT)
> > From: Ed McArthur <antines at yahoo.co.uk>
> > Subject: [LAF] Re Re: rights
> > To: List - London Anarchist Forum <laf at lists.aktivix.org>,
> > VolodyA! V
> > Anarhist <Volodya at WhenGendarmeSleeps.org>
> > Message-ID: <545355.28187.qm at web24612.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > I diId not say anyone should be "Re Educated" that is
> > something quite sinister as you know
> > ?
> > I was talking about Education that does not in the first
> > place
> > ?encourage sexual stereo types, education as in spreading
> > for example anarchist ideas
> > being a form of education
> > ?
> > I think the question of cosmetic surgery IS related to sex
> > work ?because it reflects? how society
> > treats women and what it "expects" of them? I only raised
> > it because Joy mentioned it today, I did NOT accuse you of
> > not?? addressing ?that particular issue as it had not come
> > up on this discussion before whereas misogyny? had
> >
> >
> > Ed McArthur?? 07981? 900? 563???????????
> > ?
> > ?
> >
> > www.eventsandissues.bravehost.com
> > see also
> > www.freewebs.com/bookevents
> > Conway Hall Sunday Concerts
> > www.conwayhallsundayconcerts.org.uk
> > www.freewebs.com/secularcivilrights
> > ?
> > ?
> > ?
> > ??
> > ?
> > ?
> >
> > --- On Thu, 7/23/09, VolodyA! V Anarhist <Volodya at WhenGendarmeSleeps.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: VolodyA! V Anarhist <Volodya at WhenGendarmeSleeps.org>
> > Subject: Re: [LAF] rights
> > To: "List - London Anarchist Forum" <laf at lists.aktivix.org>
> > Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 6:38 PM
> >
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Ed McArthur wrote:
> > > I have taken the precaution of spell checking this
> > post
> > >?
> > > Joy is NOT calling anyone a "sexual receptacle" she is
> > saying that that
> > > is how people involved in the sex industry/ are being
> > used/? which is
> > > quite different , its also how the capitalists who run
> > the sex industry
> > > and the customers of the sex industry see
> > > sex workers especially female sex workers.
> >
> > It is Joy and not clients who see sex workers that way. I
> > watch shit loads of
> > porn, and thus can be qualified by your 'client' label, i
> > even pay for one
> > pornographic web-site for the membership. I do not see
> > people who are there as
> > 'sex receptacles' and neither is that type of opinion
> > tolerated on the web-site
> > (that rule is explicitly stated). The only people who i
> > have heard express such
> > beliefs are anti-sex feminists.
> >
> > >? You? have failed to address in any way the question
> > of misogyny
> > > without which there would be no demand for
> > prostitution or porn
> >
> > I address it quite directly. I openly say that 'question'
> > (more of an assumption
> > really) is false.
> >
> > > Why are you so sure such attitudes would persists in a
> > future Society ,
> > > thereby creating the demand for "Voluntary"? sex work
> > ?
> > >
> > > I am more concerned however about the present (2009)
> > > Today Joy pointed out to me that Just down the road
> > from
> > >? where I live there is a large poster advertising
> > cosmetic surgery for
> > > Woman and promoting the idea of this being a good(and
> > no doubt as a
> > > subtext necessary)? thing
> > > My res pone ?? " In 2009"? ( I also plan to subvert
> > that particular ad)
> > >?
> > > This is another example of misogyny the idea
> > >? that women need to have cosmetic surgery to /improve
> > /themselves for
> > > the benefit of men
> >
> > That is a loaded assumption. It *is* a problem that we have
> > to 'improve'
> > ourselves constantly in the capitalist society, in order to
> > create the rat-race
> > culture. But as that has fuck all to do with sex work, i
> > did not address it.
> > There are also problems of diminishing water supplies in
> > Africa, but we are also
> > not discussing those in relation to sex work, are we?
> >
> > > Your whole position fails to address the question of
> > why such attitudes
> > > persist and how to educate against them, you seem
> > > to want to accommodate them and then spin them out
> > using the language of
> > > freedom and choice and accusing those who do
> > > of opposing those things and being anti sex to boot
> > >?
> > > Ed
> >
> > Your final statements are also false. I have started the
> > whole discussion with
> > the acknowledgement that prostitution is a part of
> > capitalist society, and as
> > such needs to stop. In the same way as restaurants and
> > universities need to stop
> > existing. But i am not going to advertise the idea that we
> > need to 're-educate'
> > those who cook food or prepare lectures. What we do need to
> > do (in 2009) is to
> > remove the stigma associated with the people (for example
> > about calling them
> > 'sexual receptacles').
> >
> > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - Volodya
> >
> > > Ed McArthur???07981? 900? 563? ? ? ? ? ? Nestl?-Free
> > small
> > > <http://www.babymilkaction.org/resources/boycott/nestlefree.html>
> > >?
> > > <http://www.babymilkaction.org/resources/boycott/nestlefree.html>
> >
> > > *www.eventsandissues.bravehost.com
> > > <http://www.eventsandissues.bravehost.com/>*
> > > *see also*
> > > *www.freewebs.com/bookevents <http://www.freewebs.com/bookevents>*
> > > *Conway Hall Sunday Concerts*
> > > *www.conwayhallsundayconcerts.org.uk
> > > <http://www.conwayhallsundayconcerts.org.uk/>*
> > > *www.freewebs.com/secularcivilrights
> > > <http://www.freewebs.com/secularcivilrights>*
> > > ****
> > > * <http://www.freewebs.com/secularcivilrights>*
> > > **
> > > *???*
> > >?
> > >?
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On *Thu, 7/23/09, VolodyA! V Anarhist
> > > /<Volodya at WhenGendarmeSleeps.org>/*
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >? ???From: VolodyA! V Anarhist <Volodya at WhenGendarmeSleeps.org>
> > >? ???Subject: Re: [LAF] rights
> > >? ???To: "List - London Anarchist Forum" <laf at lists.aktivix.org>
> > >? ???Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 12:10 PM
> > >
> > > Joy Wood wrote:
> > >> Putting aside for the moment the fact the subject
> > - ie, that in
> > >> prostitution (mostly) women are being sexually
> > harassed and exploited
> > >> and their own human needs and sexual desires
> > negated - has once again
> > >> been dropped in favour of erroneously accusing
> > _anti-prostitution
> > >> activists_ of being anti-_prostituted-women_
> > theorists.....the
> > > argument
> > >> below seems to hinge on the idea that because
> > human beings are
> > > rapacious
> > >> it is necessary for some women men and LGBTI
> > adults and children to be
> > >> set aside as an underclass (voluntarily if
> > possible, or paid or bribed
> > >> if not) to be used as sexual receptacles so that
> > others can be saved
> > >> from rape.
> > >
> > > Why are you calling human beings (prostitutes and
> > other sex workers)
> > > 'sexual
> > > receptacles'? I think that fits even your definition
> > of sexual
> > > harassment.
> > >
> > >? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???- Volodya
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > LAF mailing list
> > LAF at lists.aktivix.org
> > <http://us.mc246.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=LAF@lists.aktivix.org>
> > https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/laf
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > - --
> > http://freedom.libsyn.com/? ? ???Echo of Freedom,
> > Radical Podcast
> > http://eng.anarchopedia.org/? ???Anarchopedia, A Free
> > Knowledge Portal
> > http://www.freedomporn.org/? ? ? Freedom Porn,
> > anarchist and activist smut
> >
> > "None of us are free until all of us are free."? ? ~ Mihail
> > Bakunin
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> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > LAF mailing list
> > LAF at lists.aktivix.org
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> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:31:36 +0100
> > From: "VolodyA! V Anarhist" <Volodya at WhenGendarmeSleeps.org>
> > Subject: [LAF] IUSW site
> > To: List - London Anarchist Forum <laf at lists.aktivix.org>
> > Message-ID: <4A68AC88.8040301 at WhenGendarmeSleeps.org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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> >
> > http://www.iusw.org/
> >
> > Can people please to to International Union of Sex Workers
> > site and let me know
> > if it loads or not. I know for sure that it loads outside
> > of UK, but it doesn't
> > work for me, so it's either my university being overly
> > protective or maybe it's
> > UK-wide ban.
> >
> > - Volodya
> >
> >
> > - --
> > http://freedom.libsyn.com/
> > Echo of Freedom, Radical Podcast
> > http://eng.anarchopedia.org/
> > Anarchopedia, A Free Knowledge Portal
> > http://www.freedomporn.org/ Freedom
> > Porn, anarchist and activist smut
> >
> > "None of us are free until all of us are free."
> > ~ Mihail Bakunin
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
> >
> > iEYEARECAAYFAkporHsACgkQuWy2EFICg+0IlACfX2fCfV0vNvhkOI08EF6o/XBC
> > 5twAn16QMkp8JhgzC+EfDjYscVZbJ4n6
> > =C3e+
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:21:58 +0100
> > From: Ian Gregory <ianji at zenatode.org.uk>
> > Subject: Re: [LAF] IUSW site
> > To: laf at lists.aktivix.org
> > Message-ID: <20090723212158.GA47883 at zenatode.org.uk>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 07:31:36PM +0100, VolodyA! V
> > Anarhist wrote:
> >
> > > http://www.iusw.org/
> >
> > It loads fine for me (from a Be Unlimited connection in the
> > UK). There
> > is also what appears to be an older version of their site
> > running on the
> > same server:
> >
> > http://twilts.com/
> >
> > Ian
> >
> > --
> > Ian Gregory
> > http://www.zenatode.org.uk/ian/
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > LAF mailing list
> > LAF at lists.aktivix.org
> > https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/laf
> >
> >
> > End of LAF Digest, Vol 53, Issue 31
> > ***********************************
> >
>
>
>
>
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