<html><div style='background-color:'><P>Ditto<BR><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B></B></FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>Sent:</B> 13 December 2006 00:58<BR><B>To:</B> londonfeministnetwork@yahoogroups.co.uk<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [londonfeministnetwork] Re: prostitution discussion on five live<BR><BR></P></FONT>
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<P>I think that working in prostitution has nothing to do<BR>with sexuality. And everything to do with power and<BR>violence and men's percieved birth right to have<BR>sexual access to women's bodies (and men's and<BR>children's) whenver they so wish, simply because they<BR>were born male in a world where that brings privilege<BR>and superiority.<BR><BR>It is men who are the one's who are displaying a sense<BR>of superiority. Not feminists. I would never assume I<BR>had a right to buy and sell another person. Other<BR>white people throughout history have thought that, and<BR>we used to call that slavery. And rightly so. <BR><BR>There is a lot of great information on prostitution on<BR>the Coalition Against Trafficking in Women website<BR>www.catwinternation<WBR>al.org<BR><BR>The fact is that prostitution can never be safe. And<BR>it is interesting that criminologists and<BR>psychologists
have been saying that on the news over<BR>these unfolding tragedies of the young Ipswich women;<BR>and then they tell us we should legalise the whole<BR>'sex industry', yeah great - so even more women can be<BR>raped, beaten, burnt, brocken, murdered etc.<BR>Prostitution is an 'industry' built on the inferiority<BR>of women and as such equality cannot exist while it<BR>does. <BR><BR>Finn<BR>--- S JOLLY <<A href="mailto:jolly.1@btopenworld.com">jolly.1@btopenworld<WBR>.com</A>> wrote:<BR><BR>> Dear Sarah<BR>> <BR>> Oops - should have added the word "also". No<BR>> intention of leaving the punters out of this<BR>> discussion. That said, in the past, I have also<BR>> read articles in the past concerning punters,<BR>> perhaps controversally, disabled punters.<BR>> <BR>> I disagree with your comments that by legalising<BR>> prostitution it would mean that
the Government would<BR>> not provide sustainable alternative employment - we<BR>> have no idea what the Government would or would not<BR>> do; but accept your argument re acceptable<BR>> employment. I hasten to add that I would be in<BR>> favour of decriminalisation.<BR>> <BR>> Additionally, I have met prostitutes who were not<BR>> abused as children, nor do they have drug addictions<BR>> to fund (this is not to say that women who have been<BR>> interviewed for research purposes, etc., did not<BR>> give these reasons but how many women who did enter<BR>> prostitution voluntarily actually come forward to be<BR>> interviewed for academic research, etc.).<BR>> <BR>> For the record, I do disagree with women being<BR>> forced by governments to accept prostitution as a<BR>> form of employment (the situation in Germany, for<BR>> example)
and, indeed, for that matter, any woman<BR>> forced into prostitution against her will.<BR>> <BR>> With regard to punters, I feel we should not<BR>> forget that men are not just the punters - women,<BR>> albeit in smaller numbers, are also punters.<BR>> <BR>> I also feel there is more emphasis on street<BR>> prostitution in the UK than women working in flats. <BR>> I think I have previously stated on here several<BR>> months ago that I do support decriminalisation and<BR>> whilst I may possess what some of you may regard as<BR>> a marxist feminist attitude towards prostitution, I<BR>> still hold the viewpoint that if a woman does work<BR>> in the sex industry, are we not being patriarchial<BR>> by demanding that she should not do so and are,<BR>> therefore, repressing women's sexuality? ('nice'<BR>> girls don't do that).<BR>> <BR>>
Kind regards.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Suzy Jolly<BR>> <BR>> Sarah Turner <<A href="mailto:seturner@talk21.com">seturner@talk21.<WBR>com</A>> wrote:<BR>> Dear Suzy<BR>> <BR>> Just a brief comment - I am unsure why you want to<BR>> leave the punters out of this discussion? There are<BR>> approximately 3 million of them compared with just<BR>> 80,000 prostitutes. By focusing solely on the reason<BR>> for supply you forget the reason prostitution exists<BR>> at all - because there is male demand. <BR>> <BR>> The econonic realities for women in this country<BR>> are also to blame (lack of opportunities) but in<BR>> most cases the need to fund drug addiction or sexual<BR>> abuse as a child are the reasons most women<BR>> "voluntarily" enter prostitution. In addition,<BR>> legalising prostitution will prevent the
government<BR>> from providing sustainable alternative employment to<BR>> women, or helping them to exit prostitution, as by<BR>> legalising it, they are saying it is now an<BR>> acceptable career choice.<BR>> <BR>> s368587 <<A href="mailto:jolly.1@btopenworld.com">jolly.1@btopenworld<WBR>.com</A>> wrote:<BR>> Unfortunately, I did miss this broadcast.<BR>> <BR>> At the risk of starting a controversial debate and a<BR>> deluge of posts <BR>> (don't forget to change your options folks!), I do<BR>> think there is <BR>> merit to the argument that legalisation could make<BR>> prostitution safer <BR>> (or perhaps decriminalisation)<WBR>.<BR>> <BR>> Whilst I appreciate that LFN appears to come across<BR>> as against this <BR>> argument; I hasten to add that not all feminists<BR>> hold this viewpoint <BR>> and I sincerely hope
that all viewpoints will be<BR>> democratically <BR>> listened to (and, if appropriate, torn to shreds).<BR>> <BR>> Whilst researching prostitution, I was horrified to<BR>> learn of the <BR>> ordeals women and children go through, especially<BR>> concerning sex <BR>> trafficking. However, I was also struck by how crime<BR>> and drug use <BR>> reduced when a tolerance zone some years ago was<BR>> established in <BR>> Leith, Edinburgh. Whilst the Swedish model gets a<BR>> lot of reporting, <BR>> less appears to be said to the models adopted by,<BR>> for example, New <BR>> Zealand.<BR>> <BR>> Rather than concentrating on the punters, shouldn't<BR>> we (or the powers <BR>> that be?) look at the economic reasons for why women<BR>> enter <BR>> prostitution?<BR>> <BR>> Flurry awaited ...<BR>> <BR>> Regards.<BR>>
<BR>> Suzy Jolly<BR>> <BR>> --- In <A href="mailto:londonfeministnetwork@yahoogroups.co.uk">londonfeministnetwo<WBR>rk@yahoogroups.<WBR>co.uk</A>,<BR>> Sarah Turner <BR>> <seturner@..<WBR>.> wrote:<BR>> ><BR>> > Dear All<BR>> > <BR>> > I don't know if anyone was listening to the<BR>> discussion which <BR>> happened on five live from between 9am - 10am in<BR>> light of the recent <BR>> murder of prostitutes. I was asked to speak but<BR>> unfortunately only <BR>> got about two minutes to discuss a good half hour of<BR>> material.<BR>> > <BR>> > What worried me the most was practically<BR>> everyone's attitude that <BR>> prostitution is "inevitable" but the one point I was<BR>> able to make <BR>> (but I don't think was taken on board) was how can<BR>> we say something <BR>> is inevitable if we
have never really tried to<BR>> tackle and reduce it. <BR>> My point is that the government strategies so far<BR>> focus almost <BR>> exclusively on the 80,000 or so prostitutes in the<BR>> UK but completely <BR>> fail to address the largest contributing factor to<BR>> prostitution, that <BR>> is the 3 million or so punters. I did think the<BR>> presenter didn't like <BR>> my comments which is why I didn't get a lot of air<BR>> time - anyone <BR>> saying legalisation made prostitution safer (really?<BR>> how?) got quite <BR>> a bit of air time!<BR>> > <BR>> > Anyway hope some of you heard it.<BR>> > <BR>> > Sarah<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > ------------<WBR>---------<WBR>---------<WBR>---<BR>> > All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning<BR>> in its <BR>> simplicity and ease of use." - PC
Magazine<BR>> ><BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Send instant messages to your online friends<BR>> <A href="http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/">http://uk.messenger<WBR>.yahoo.com</A> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR><BR>Finn Fox says, "Forget not that the earth delights to feel your bare feet, and the winds long to play in your hair."<BR><BR><BR>____________<WBR>_________<WBR>_________<WBR>_________<WBR>_________<WBR>_________<WBR>_ <BR>Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. "The New Version is radically easier to use" – The Wall Street Journal <BR><A href="http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html">http://uk.docs.<WBR>yahoo.com/<WBR>nowyoucan.<WBR>html</A><BR></P></DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: white">__._,_.___</SPAN>
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