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Wow, thanks for telling me about "No Answer for a Dancer" Mich, i just googled the lyrics because I've never heard of Consolidated and they're really good, I've posted them below. Also, you're exactly right, the march WAS a Reclaim the Night march and it was followed by a mixed rally at ULU. Do come next year - it's always around The International Day to End Violence Against Women (which was Sunday this year so we marched on the Saturday night just before).<BR>
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The Channel 4 video you say you sent, if that was a link to Mark Thomas's documentary on Coca Cola, yes I definitely got your post and it was brilliant. If you're talking about something else, though, Mich, I don't remember seeing it.<BR>
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Joy<BR>
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"No Answer for a Dancer" by Consolidated<BR>
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it was after the show and i’m loading out the van <BR>it could’ve been anywhere but in this case atlanta<BR>a woman walks up while i’m packing <BR>she says have you got a minute i say yeah just a second <BR>how are you did you enjoy the show <BR>she said i did but i still have a question though <BR>‘cuz some of your remarks were confusing <BR>especially the ones about pornography and prostitution <BR>now let me understand this <BR>that for women and children this is violence <BR>well i appreciate the messages you’re giving <BR>but i happen to dance for a living <BR>and i want to know why you want to be my voice <BR>try to take away that which should be my choice <BR>to seek some meaningful and gainful employment <BR>even if it means giving dirty old men enjoyment <BR>now exploitation of anyone is wrong i agree <BR>but this doesn’t apply to me <BR>i’ve never been harassed while i work and my bottom line’s phat <BR>now sir can you deal with that<BR>
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you could already call the situation <BR>i wasn’t even speculating about her occupation <BR>but this debate’s insane <BR>and i was on the spot so i had to try to explain <BR>her points were intelligent and simple <BR>and i’m already feeling like mr. guilty white liberal <BR>just try to be sensitive <BR>don’t act like i have any advice to give <BR>let me make it clear i support you <BR>in a man’s world a woman does what she’s got to <BR>if this is your profession <BR>your sexual expression <BR>your internalized oppression<BR>hey i won’t doubt you <BR>my only problem is with a society <BR>that forces women into sexual commodity <BR>where a third of all women are known <BR>to be sexually abused before they’re grown<BR>the most raped most homeless and addicted <BR>if this job were described to you would you have picked it<BR>
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average age fourteen <BR>hell yes obscene <BR>made to look aroused by pain <BR>children being raped with guns and knives <BR>that ain’t speech but the taking of innocent’s lives <BR>if you happen to be the exception that’s cool <BR>but let’s consider the overwhelming rule<BR>
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we parted ways with no resolution <BR>you could go back and forth and never find a solution <BR>the only point i wanted to make to her <BR>is while all the liberals and pornographers<BR>decide where the line between porn and erotica is <BR>this is what prostitution really is <BR>a question of censorship alright <BR>of women’s and children’s basic rights<BR>and there’s no first amendment protection <BR>for those unable to raise an objection <BR>if they weren’t silenced they’d sound an alarm <BR>and we’d all know the difference between speech and harm <BR>you want to mutilate yourself on film that’s your choice <BR>but can we protect those without a voice <BR>i’d never get in your face <BR>i just don’t want you to end up like linda lovelace <BR>the bottom line is i’m a man <BR>and i listen to you because i could never understand <BR>and i haven’t got shit to say <BR>but if i don’t say anything <BR>well how long will it be this way<BR>
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[Hear the clip from Consolidated at the Listen to Samples section of the <A href="http://tinyurl.com/73kn3" target=_blank>Business of Punishment</A> page at Amazon]<BR>
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<BR><BR>> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:49:12 +0000<BR>> From: kj10680@yahoo.co.uk<BR>> Subject: Re: [LAF] {Disarmed} FW: [londonfeministnetwork] Statement on the 25th of November<BR>> To: joy_helbin@hotmail.com; laf@lists.aktivix.org<BR>> <BR>> Cheers for posting this Joy. Horrifying and unsetting<BR>> to read, but necessarry also. Am rubbish at computers<BR>> but hope i have managed to 'scan and save' it to my<BR>> computer! <BR>> It is obvious that all other forms of violence become<BR>> heightened during periods of 'official war', and i was<BR>> aware of quite a bit of this; but is useful to have<BR>> the statistics to hand.<BR>> I have read a lot of your posts before with interest,<BR>> for examp[le the ones on pornography and prostitution<BR>> - an area i am conflicted on. <BR>> Cos i believe in freedom and liberty, and know a<BR>> couple of friends who are working girls, or used too,<BR>> and they would be stuck without the money.<BR>> However, i think it is horrible in the attitute<BR>> towards sexuality it sort of gives off. <BR>> Obviously under capitalism, everything is comodified<BR>> and fetished(?) and sex is very interesting as can be<BR>> the most passionate beautiful intense feelings you can<BR>> share - to a frightning, coerced abuse of a minor, and<BR>> of course a million variations inbetween.<BR>> It worrys me that porn leads to not seeing women as<BR>> human beings also by some men, and also i think maybe<BR>> leads to violence.<BR>> What is most clear to me however, and i am<BR>> uneducated,etc, so hope i am expressing it right, is<BR>> that rape is a crime of violence and power, and not<BR>> that much to do with sex.<BR>> Cos if someone just wanted sex, they would get in less<BR>> trouble with polis , etc, if just shoplifted or done<BR>> a bit of kiting or that, and then paid a prostitute.<BR>> I know everyone is aware of that on this forum, but<BR>> really pisses me of when u hear judges and others who<BR>> should know better - tal;king shite like 'she was<BR>> asking for it', 'he couldn't help himself' and other<BR>> such assorted bollocks.<BR>> I suppose the one piece that sums up my attitude or<BR>> come extremely close, is actually a song lyrics. <BR>> Is no answer for a dancer by Consolidated, have u<BR>> heard it, or seen the lyrics.<BR>> <BR>> am glad the march type thing went ok, i would have<BR>> liked to come to that, but am not always able to get<BR>> to the computer, and get too much e-mail and spam, so<BR>> miss lots of posts - i just hapened to see this cos<BR>> was sitting here writing an e-mail to do with a irish<BR>> prisoner, who even by bourgeious law, should be<BR>> repatriated, and his life is in danger having been<BR>> almost killed in attack already. I do not agree with<BR>> his organisation, but is a human rights issue and i<BR>> see their point.<BR>> <BR>> Next time there is one , perhaps it would be kl for me<BR>> to tag along. i take it is like the old 'bring or take<BR>> back the night things?<BR>> <BR>> solidarity, mich<BR>> <BR>> p.s. does anyone know if the e-mail i sent via channel<BR>> 4 turned up as i have gone back thru my e-mails and<BR>> cannot find it. <BR>> --- Joy Wood <joy_helbin@hotmail.com> wrote:<BR>> <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 15:53:08 +0000<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > Last night's march in London was brilliant and<BR>> > everything was so well organised -Thanks to<BR>> > everyone. This statement is a reminder that this is<BR>> > a worldwide issue that we need to work on all the<BR>> > time.<BR>> > Sheila<BR>> > <BR>> > WILPF Statement on the International Day for the<BR>> > Elimination of Violence Against Women and the 16<BR>> > Days of Activism Against Gender Violence <BR>> > <BR>> > The 25th of November is International Day for the<BR>> > Elimination of Violence Against Women. For the last<BR>> > 15 years, from this day until UN Human Rights Day<BR>> > (10 December) 16 Days of Activism Against Gender<BR>> > Violence are observed, recognized by the UN since<BR>> > 1999. Protecting women’s human rights and<BR>> > eliminating violence against women has advanced<BR>> > through the United Nations. Since 1995 substantial<BR>> > work has been done to implement the Beijing<BR>> > Declaration and Platform for Action arising from the<BR>> > 4th UN World Conference on Women; 185 countries –<BR>> > more than 90 percent of the UN member states – have<BR>> > now ratified the 1979 Convention on the Elimination<BR>> > of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women<BR>> > (CEDAW); and, United Nations Security Council<BR>> > adopted Resolution 1325 on Women, Peace and Security<BR>> > in 2000.Despite this recognition, violence against<BR>> > women is a reality that cuts across borders, wealth,<BR>> > race, religion and culture. Every day women<BR>> > experience extensive violence, particularly in<BR>> > countries at war, in crisis or conflict where<BR>> > women’s rights deteriorate and are under pressure: <BR>> > <BR>> > One in three women has been beaten, raped, coerced<BR>> > into sex, or otherwise abused in her lifetime; 1 <BR>> > Every fifth woman is subjected to rape or attempt to<BR>> > rape; 1 <BR>> > 70 percent of the casualties in recent conflicts<BR>> > have been non-combatants. 80 percent of these are<BR>> > women and children; 1 <BR>> > Systematic rape, sexual violence and abuse in<BR>> > Darfur, in Sudan, is used as a weapon in the war; 1 <BR>> > During the conflict between 1991 and 2002, it is<BR>> > estimated that a third of all women and girls in<BR>> > Sierra Leone were subjected to sexual violence; 1 <BR>> > Since the 1999 war Kosovo has become a major<BR>> > destination country for women and girls trafficked<BR>> > into forced prostitution. Around 15-20 percent of<BR>> > the women are allegedly under 14 years; 1 <BR>> > In Colombia 3.5-4 million people are displaced. The<BR>> > majority of these are women with many children.<BR>> > There are reports of increased violence against the<BR>> > women; 2 <BR>> > Every year 14,000 Russian women die as a result of<BR>> > violence in the home; 1 <BR>> > Every fifth day a Spanish woman is killed by her<BR>> > partner; 1 <BR>> > One in three Native American or Alaska Native women<BR>> > will be raped at some point in their lives; 1 <BR>> > Every fourth minute a woman in the USA is raped; 1 <BR>> > In fourteen countries a man can get mitigation of<BR>> > his sentence or impunity if he perpetrates violence<BR>> > or kills a woman in order to protect the so-called<BR>> > honour; 1 <BR>> > According to law in nine countries a rapist gets<BR>> > impunity if he marries his victim. 1 <BR>> > Violence against women in war areas has, according<BR>> > to UNDP, reached epidemic heights. The common<BR>> > denominator for the 1990’s conflicts and the<BR>> > conflicts in this millennium has been comprehensive<BR>> > sexual abuse, forced pregnancy as a tool in ethnic<BR>> > genocide, kidnapping, intentional infection with<BR>> > HIV/AIDS and trafficking in women and children for<BR>> > sexual purposes. 3 Changes in the pattern of gender<BR>> > roles are one of the consequences of conflict, war<BR>> > or occupation. Violence and aggression becomes<BR>> > integrated into everyday life. When killing becomes<BR>> > legitimate, it also becomes legitimate to rape or<BR>> > buy and sell human bodies; a systematic<BR>> > brutalization of the whole society occurs resulting<BR>> > in numerous and grave assaults on women who are<BR>> > abused by family members as well as by unknown men,<BR>> > civilians as well as soldiers.Every day and<BR>> > everywhere women are working for respect of their<BR>> > rights and for better conditions. WILPF honours the<BR>> > courage and endurance of women and recommits itself<BR>> > to eliminating violence against women, achieving<BR>> > disarmament and an end to violent conflicts. Since<BR>> > 1915 when it was founded, the Women’s International<BR>> > League for Peace and Freedom has worked to<BR>> > eliminating war and militarism as the best way to<BR>> > reduce and eliminate violence in our societies and<BR>> > in the world. Ensuring that women are active<BR>> > participants in the decisions that affect their<BR>> > lives before, during and after conflicts is the best<BR>> > way to ensure that women’s concerns and needs are on<BR>> > the agenda and get the priority they need. <BR>> > --------------------------------------1) Amnesty<BR>> > International, international and Danish websites; 2)<BR>> > Women Building Peace Around The World: The Case of<BR>> > Colombia in a 1325 perspective, WILPF Delegation to<BR>> > Colombia, July 12– 20, 2007; 3) UNDP, Newsletter<BR>> > from the Nordic Office, 23th of April 2003.<BR><br /><hr />Get closer to the jungle… <a href='http://entertainment.uk.msn.com/tv/realitytv/im-a-celebrity/' target='_new'>I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here!</a></body>
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