<table cellspacing='0' cellpadding='0' border='0' ><tr><td style='font: inherit;'><P>Volodya</P>
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<P>You must have pressed reply rather than reply all as your reply only came to me</P>
<P>(others see below)</P>
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<P>Empowering people is a long term projec ( and how do we empower people who dont wantr to be empowered anyway))</P>
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<P> in the short term</P>
<P>racism has to be dealt with, as in stoping as far as is possible racist assaults or just agressive behaviour when people just want to gewt from A to B</P>
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<P>I am not saying state intervention <STRONG>is the answer</STRONG> but lets say the train service was under workers control</P>
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<P>Why would the people who run them not have the right to lay down rules for that space?</P>
<P>Anarchist are not opposed to rules as such as far as I understand it a group running a vegan space are entitled for example to insist that people dont come in and start eating meat because it is their "right"</P>
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<P>There is another point : What about the workers who have to clean up the vomit and worst? What about the medical workers ?<BR></P>
<P>This is the real world as it is not the other world that is (or might be) possible to get to that world there has to be a profound change in the human heart and no that cannot come from above, but meanwhile practical peroblems do require practical soloutions </P>
<P>here now today, </P>
<P>That is why allthough my default position is to oppose state intervention there are circumstances where it may be the lesser of two evils</P>
<P>We should talk about this at an LAF meeting</P>
<P>Ed</P>
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<P>Is it libertarian to impose on other passengers in this way ?<BR>> <BR>> Whats wrong with no more drunken racists Aussies sing racists rugby <BR>> songs ??? <BR>> <BR>> on the tube at night?<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> We are talking about a confined space here,<BR>> <BR>> so I think the argument<BR>> <BR>> is different to banning smoking in pubs where<BR>> <BR>> you can have different zones<BR>> <BR>> sounds to me like selfish individualism<BR>> <BR>> Ed<BR><BR>Yes it is selfish individualism, but the problem is *not* the people who sing <BR>racist songs, the problem is that others aren't empowered to stop racism. The <BR>government ban solves no problems and creates extra ones in the process.<BR><BR>Drugs destroy the communities (especially poorer communities), but drug war is <BR>*not* an answer. I think this is a better analogy here.<BR><BR>
- Volodya<BR><BR><BR><BR></P>
<DIV class=widget-content align=left>Ed McArthur 07981 900 563<A href="http://www.babymilkaction.org/resources/boycott/nestlefree.html" target=_blank rel=nofollow><IMG height=157 alt="Nestlé-Free small" src="http://www.babymilkaction.org/flash/nestlefreezone.gif" width=136 border=0></A></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=1>see Events & Issues website </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=1> </FONT><A href="http://www.eventsandissues.bravehost.com/events.html" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT size=1>http://www.eventsandissues.bravehost.com/events.html</FONT></A><FONT size=1> For LAF and lots more</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=1></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=1>See Book Events</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.freewebs.com/bookevents/" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT color=#003399 size=6><SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1196243262_0><FONT size=1>http://www.freewebs.com/bookevents</FONT>/</SPAN></FONT></A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><BR><BR>--- On <B>Wed, 5/21/08, steve ash <I><steveash_2001@yahoo.co.uk></I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: steve ash <steveash_2001@yahoo.co.uk><BR>Subject: Re: Tube party!<BR>To: antines@yahoo.co.uk, "Joy Wood" <joy_helbin@hotmail.com>, "London Anarchist Forum" <laf@lists.aktivix.org><BR>Cc: "Jocelyn Chaplin" <jochaplin@yahoo.com>, "Camilla Martin" <camilla@camillamartin.freeserve.co.uk>, "Jayne" <freedomcopy@aol.com>, "Terry Liddle" <tliddle@freeuk.com><BR>Date: Wednesday, May 21, 2008, 2:00 PM<BR><BR><PRE>I also think imposition is okay in small doses, many
people enjoy it ;)))
--- Ed McArthur <antines@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
---------------------------------
Is it libertarian to impose on other passengers in
this way ?
Whats wrong with no more drunken racists Aussies sing
racists rugby songs ???
on the tube at night?
We are talking about a confined space here,
so I think the argument
is different to banning smoking in pubs where
you can have different zones
sounds to me like selfish individualism
Ed
Ed McArthur 07981 900 563
see Events & Issues website
http://www.eventsandissues.bravehost.com/events.html
For LAF and lots more
See Book Events
http://www.freewebs.com/bookevents/
--- On Wed, 5/21/08, steve ash
<steveash_2001@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
From: steve ash <steveash_2001@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Tube party!
To: "Joy Wood" <joy_helbin@hotmail.com>,
antines@yahoo.co.uk, "London Anarchist Forum"
<laf@lists.aktivix.org>
Cc: "Jocelyn Chaplin" <jochaplin@yahoo.com>, "steve
ash" <steveash_2001@yahoo.co.uk>, "Camilla Martin"
<camilla@camillamartin.freeserve.co.uk>, "Jayne"
<freedomcopy@aol.com>, "Terry Liddle"
<tliddle@freeuk.com>
Date: Wednesday, May 21, 2008, 1:29 AM
I pass this on in the interest of public safety!Host:
: People's Alliance for the Right to Party Type: Party
- Night of Mayhem Start Saturday, May 31, 2008 at
9:00pm End : Sunday, June 1, 2008 at 12:30am Circle
Line, Liverpool St, Second to Last Carriage.first
train after 9pm at liverpool st station... City/Town:
London, United Kingdom Party people of London!Come
one, come all, lend us your ears - this one's abit
special..So Boris has been elected, and he's banning
drinkingon the underground. Fair enough you might
think. Nomore being harassed by crazies. But it also
means nomore last drink before the club, no more
champagnefrolics at new year's and no more tanked up
Aussieguys singing.First a smoking ban, now a drinking
ban, what's next?But we're not giving in so easily! No
no Monsieur.We're organising one last party, one
high-glamour,weird-ass shindig on the circle line to
royally givethe finger to Big Brother and this culture
oflegislation and regulations. What's more,
we'reholding it on the night before the drinking ban!
Vivela revolucion!After Saturday 31st of May, nobody
will ever beallowed to drink on the tube again. In ten
years,it'll be up there with smoking in cinemas and
having atouch of crack after dinner. So - on this
date, pullout your ballgown, dust off your tuxedo and
join us -the exact times are yet to be finalised but
it'll beon the circle line, the second to last
carriage thatarrives at each station at a specific
time. Hopefullywe'll get a load of people all dressed
superglamorously casually having a soiree on the
samecarriage of the tube. There could be 15 of us,
therecould be 150. Such is the power of facebook!This
is basically just a preliminarytesting-of-the-water to
see who'd be interested and upfor it. So...Are you
in?______________________________________________So.
The Circle Line takes approximately 50 minutes todo a
full erm.. circle. We'll be travelling clockwise!Stay
for hours or for a few stops, it doesn't matter,and
who knows where we'll end up finishing the
night!*****************************************************************************************************************UPDATE!!!*Kids
and kidettes, it's official - we're getting onthe
first train to pass Liverpool street after theclock
strikes 9PM , second to last carriage,travelling
CLOCKWISE! huzzah and thrice huzzah!I'm going to work
out what time to get the same trainat each consecutive
station - I'm sure we won't beeasy to miss though! I
reckon it's something likethis:9.02 at tower hill,
9.14 at embankment, 9.20 atVictoria and so on. May be
wrong but I'm sure that's adamn good guess. More on
this to follow. Spit spot.This is a terribly genteel
affair, what, so let's dothis in some serious style.
Think cocktail partyglamour, think electrogogo glitter
craziness, thinkflamboyant over-the-toppery. Do
whatever you like, butlet's do it in style!Two little
rules, obvious though they may sound: 1 - drink
responsibly, whatever that might mean..2 - be nice!
Spread the love baby, we're making thishappen
together! That's it for now, partypeople's. Get the
date in yourdiary and let's make this a night to
remember!
__________________________________________________________Sent
from Yahoo! Mail.A Smarter Email
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
__________________________________________________________
Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table><br>