<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><DIV>I diId not say anyone should be "Re Educated" that is something quite sinister as you know</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I was talking about Education that does not in the first place </DIV>
<DIV> encourage sexual stereo types, education as in spreading for example anarchist ideas</DIV>
<DIV>being a form of education</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I think the question of cosmetic surgery IS related to sex work because it reflects how society</DIV>
<DIV>treats women and what it "expects" of them I only raised it because Joy mentioned it today, I did NOT accuse you of not addressing that particular issue as it had not come up on this discussion before whereas misogyny had<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=widget-content align=left>Ed <SPAN><SPAN>McArthur</SPAN></SPAN> 07981 900 563 <A href="http://www.babymilkaction.org/resources/boycott/nestlefree.html" rel=nofollow target=_blank><IMG border=0 alt="Nestlé-Free small" src="http://www.babymilkaction.org/flash/nestlefreezone.gif" width=136 height=157></A></DIV>
<DIV class=widget-content align=left> </DIV>
<DIV class=widget-content align=left><A href="http://www.babymilkaction.org/resources/boycott/nestlefree.html" rel=nofollow target=_blank></A> </DIV>
<DIV class=widget-content align=left>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=EN-GB><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman"><A href="http://www.eventsandissues.bravehost.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.eventsandissues.bravehost.com</A></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></B></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=EN-GB><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman">see also</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></B></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=EN-GB><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman"><A href="http://www.freewebs.com/bookevents" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.freewebs.com/bookevents</A></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></B></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=EN-GB><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman">Conway Hall Sunday Concerts</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></B></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=EN-GB><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman"><A href="http://www.conwayhallsundayconcerts.org.uk/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.conwayhallsundayconcerts.org.uk</A></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></B></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=EN-GB><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman"><A href="http://www.freewebs.com/secularcivilrights" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.freewebs.com/secularcivilrights</A></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></B></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=EN-GB><SPAN><FONT size=3><STRONG></STRONG></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></B> </DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=EN-GB><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman"><A href="http://www.freewebs.com/secularcivilrights" rel=nofollow target=_blank></A></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></B> </DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=EN-GB><SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></B> </DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt" lang=EN-GB><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman"> </FONT></SPAN></SPAN></B></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><BR><BR>--- On <B>Thu, 7/23/09, VolodyA! V Anarhist <I><Volodya@WhenGendarmeSleeps.org></I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"><BR>From: VolodyA! V Anarhist <Volodya@WhenGendarmeSleeps.org><BR>Subject: Re: [LAF] rights<BR>To: "List - London Anarchist Forum" <laf@lists.aktivix.org><BR>Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 6:38 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV class=plainMail>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<BR>Hash: SHA1<BR><BR>Ed McArthur wrote:<BR>> I have taken the precaution of spell checking this post<BR>> <BR>> Joy is NOT calling anyone a "sexual receptacle" she is saying that that<BR>> is how people involved in the sex industry/ are being used/ which is<BR>> quite different , its also how the capitalists who run the sex industry <BR>> and the customers of the sex industry see<BR>> sex workers especially female sex workers. <BR><BR>It is Joy and not clients who see sex workers that way. I watch shit loads of<BR>porn, and thus can be qualified by your 'client' label, i even pay for one<BR>pornographic web-site for the membership. I do not see people who are there as<BR>'sex receptacles' and neither is that type of opinion tolerated on the web-site<BR>(that rule is explicitly stated). The only people who i have heard express such<BR>beliefs are anti-sex
feminists.<BR><BR>> You have failed to address in any way the question of misogyny<BR>> without which there would be no demand for prostitution or porn<BR><BR>I address it quite directly. I openly say that 'question' (more of an assumption<BR>really) is false.<BR><BR>> Why are you so sure such attitudes would persists in a future Society ,<BR>> thereby creating the demand for "Voluntary" sex work ?<BR>> <BR>> I am more concerned however about the present (2009)<BR>> Today Joy pointed out to me that Just down the road from<BR>> where I live there is a large poster advertising cosmetic surgery for<BR>> Woman and promoting the idea of this being a good(and no doubt as a<BR>> subtext necessary) thing<BR>> My res pone ? " In 2009" ( I also plan to subvert that particular ad)<BR>> <BR>> This is another example of misogyny the idea<BR>> that women need to have
cosmetic surgery to /improve /themselves for<BR>> the benefit of men<BR><BR>That is a loaded assumption. It *is* a problem that we have to 'improve'<BR>ourselves constantly in the capitalist society, in order to create the rat-race<BR>culture. But as that has fuck all to do with sex work, i did not address it.<BR>There are also problems of diminishing water supplies in Africa, but we are also<BR>not discussing those in relation to sex work, are we?<BR><BR>> Your whole position fails to address the question of why such attitudes<BR>> persist and how to educate against them, you seem<BR>> to want to accommodate them and then spin them out using the language of<BR>> freedom and choice and accusing those who do<BR>> of opposing those things and being anti sex to boot<BR>> <BR>> Ed<BR><BR>Your final statements are also false. I have started the whole discussion with<BR>the acknowledgement that prostitution is a part of
capitalist society, and as<BR>such needs to stop. In the same way as restaurants and universities need to stop<BR>existing. But i am not going to advertise the idea that we need to 're-educate'<BR>those who cook food or prepare lectures. What we do need to do (in 2009) is to<BR>remove the stigma associated with the people (for example about calling them<BR>'sexual receptacles').<BR><BR> - Volodya<BR><BR>> Ed McArthur 07981 900 563 Nestlé-Free small<BR>> <<A href="http://www.babymilkaction.org/resources/boycott/nestlefree.html" target=_blank>http://www.babymilkaction.org/resources/boycott/nestlefree.html</A>><BR>> <BR>> <<A href="http://www.babymilkaction.org/resources/boycott/nestlefree.html" target=_blank>http://www.babymilkaction.org/resources/boycott/nestlefree.html</A>> <BR>>
*www.eventsandissues.bravehost.com<BR>> <<A href="http://www.eventsandissues.bravehost.com/" target=_blank>http://www.eventsandissues.bravehost.com/</A>>*<BR>> *see also*<BR>> *www.freewebs.com/bookevents <<A href="http://www.freewebs.com/bookevents" target=_blank>http://www.freewebs.com/bookevents</A>>*<BR>> *Conway Hall Sunday Concerts*<BR>> *www.conwayhallsundayconcerts.org.uk<BR>> <<A href="http://www.conwayhallsundayconcerts.org.uk/" target=_blank>http://www.conwayhallsundayconcerts.org.uk/</A>>*<BR>> *www.freewebs.com/secularcivilrights<BR>> <<A href="http://www.freewebs.com/secularcivilrights" target=_blank>http://www.freewebs.com/secularcivilrights</A>>*<BR>> **** <BR>> * <<A href="http://www.freewebs.com/secularcivilrights" target=_blank>http://www.freewebs.com/secularcivilrights</A>>* <BR>> ** <BR>> * *<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ---
On *Thu, 7/23/09, VolodyA! V Anarhist<BR>> /<<A href="http://us.mc246.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Volodya@WhenGendarmeSleeps.org" ymailto="mailto:Volodya@WhenGendarmeSleeps.org">Volodya@WhenGendarmeSleeps.org</A>>/* wrote:<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> From: VolodyA! V Anarhist <<A href="http://us.mc246.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Volodya@WhenGendarmeSleeps.org" ymailto="mailto:Volodya@WhenGendarmeSleeps.org">Volodya@WhenGendarmeSleeps.org</A>><BR>> Subject: Re: [LAF] rights<BR>> To: "List - London Anarchist Forum" <<A href="http://us.mc246.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=laf@lists.aktivix.org" ymailto="mailto:laf@lists.aktivix.org">laf@lists.aktivix.org</A>><BR>> Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 12:10 PM<BR>> <BR>> Joy Wood wrote:<BR>>> Putting aside for the moment the fact the subject - ie, that in<BR>>> prostitution
(mostly) women are being sexually harassed and exploited<BR>>> and their own human needs and sexual desires negated - has once again<BR>>> been dropped in favour of erroneously accusing _anti-prostitution<BR>>> activists_ of being anti-_prostituted-women_ theorists.....the<BR>> argument<BR>>> below seems to hinge on the idea that because human beings are<BR>> rapacious<BR>>> it is necessary for some women men and LGBTI adults and children to be<BR>>> set aside as an underclass (voluntarily if possible, or paid or bribed<BR>>> if not) to be used as sexual receptacles so that others can be saved<BR>>> from rape.<BR>> <BR>> Why are you calling human beings (prostitutes and other sex workers)<BR>> 'sexual<BR>> receptacles'? I think that fits even your definition of sexual<BR>> harassment.<BR>> <BR>> -
Volodya<BR>> <BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>LAF mailing list<BR><A href="http://us.mc246.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=LAF@lists.aktivix.org" ymailto="mailto:LAF@lists.aktivix.org">LAF@lists.aktivix.org</A><BR><<A href="http://us.mc246.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=LAF@lists.aktivix.org" target=_blank>http://us.mc246.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=LAF@lists.aktivix.org</A>><BR><A href="https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/laf" target=_blank>https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/laf</A><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>- --<BR><A href="http://freedom.libsyn.com/" target=_blank>http://freedom.libsyn.com/</A> Echo of Freedom, Radical Podcast<BR><A href="http://eng.anarchopedia.org/" target=_blank>http://eng.anarchopedia.org/</A> Anarchopedia, A Free Knowledge Portal<BR><A href="http://www.freedomporn.org/" target=_blank>http://www.freedomporn.org/</A>
Freedom Porn, anarchist and activist smut<BR><BR>"None of us are free until all of us are free." ~ Mihail Bakunin<BR>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<BR>Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)<BR>Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - <A href="http://enigmail.mozdev.org/" target=_blank>http://enigmail.mozdev.org</A><BR><BR>iEYEARECAAYFAkpooBkACgkQuWy2EFICg+1wdACgpWU+Kk2XDd5alsHMNaKtvkrm<BR>0CgAnjsY3JfEUJpJ3Pbx+KgV9lQmL0Gu<BR>=JaiF<BR>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>LAF mailing list<BR><A href="http://us.mc246.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=LAF@lists.aktivix.org" ymailto="mailto:LAF@lists.aktivix.org">LAF@lists.aktivix.org</A><BR><A href="https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/laf" target=_blank>https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/laf</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></td></tr></table><br>