[matilda] Re: crime and punishment

[atw]

>> By invoking the idea of punishment you are already replicating the
>> problems of mainstream society. 

Mr> But there was an agreed means of dealing with trouble at Matilda. It's not
Mr> about punishment but about saying "If you do something shit then you lose
Mr> the right to use the space, at least until things have calmed down or have
Mr> been resolved"


Fine, then rather than waste time and energy deciding whether to ban
people why not work on resolving things right away?

Also although you think it's not about 'punishment' not everyone is
thinking the same way. Check out the title of this thread.




>> I also think to blame two people for the problems of Matilda is
>> pathetic and dishonest. The word for it is 'scapegoating'.

Mr> But the blame has to rest somewhere, otherwise we can all just blame our
Mr> parents who can blame theirs and then we can do as we will and stuff
Mr> accepting our responsibility.

I'm not sure blaming people in general is a good way to resolve
problems between them. I society is set up to blame people from birth
till death but I don't think it tackles the problems we have at all.
Hence they keep on happening.



Mr>  Yes we are all responsible for situations and
Mr> resolutions have to involve everyone.

I don't think personal conflicts need involve everyone. I can't see
any advantage to that and seems to me that it's more likely to make
things worse.



Mr>  But violence cannot be condoned by inaction and the final
Mr>  responsbility must rest with individuals.

Yes agreed. I wasn't suggesting inaction but rather alternative
action.



>> It seems to me there are two things that need sorting out. Firstly the
>> problems of meetings, communication and decision making. These are key
>> for all relationships between people. How these are carried out will
>> affect everyone so we all need to discuss them.

Mr> Agreed. 

>> Secondly there is obviously some personal issues between some people.
>> These only affect those involved and they are not everyone else's
>> business. I think it is primarily for those involved to sort these out
>> how they want to though sometimes some impartial mediation is helpful.

Mr> Again agreed, however saying that something is a 'personal issue' should not
Mr> be an excuse to avoid confronting actions outside of what is acceptable.
Mr> There lies many a victim of domestic violence who was not anyone's
Mr> "business".


Yeah but from what little I've heard I'm not sure that's the case
here, is it?

steve