[pagan-magik] UP! 255// HIPPY 2007-12 - The Final Chapter// 01 07 07
fraser at parallel-youniversity.com
fraser at parallel-youniversity.com
Mon Jul 2 21:09:28 BST 2007
TURN ON COMPUTER // TUNE IN TO FUNLEASHED SPIRIT OF INTERNET // TAKE OVER!
UP! 255// Hippy 2007-12 - The Final Chapter// 01 07 07
**
// /"The UP! gets better and better."/
Jon Evans, Caerphilly, Wales.
UP!
"Most recent UP.. totally amazing. thanks!"
Jasper Vader, Tokyo.
UP!
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_london___
THURSDAY JULY 5
Hippy 2007-12 - The Final Chapter__
THE HIPPIES WERE RIGHT! from first to last,
SO REASSESS AND /"DROP OUT"/ FAST!
- an ___ambient lecture___ (with demo movies) by *Fraser Clark.****
*
To 60s Hippies the dominant greed-crazed, competitive, personally
repressed, anti-Nature society looked insane and a threat to EVERYONE,
even the rich within it.
DROPPING OUT was a brave, personal decision to reduce your consumption
(and your carbon footprint) by 75%. Millions of good people accepted
that's what the planet needed, and hundreds of thousands have continued
ever since - /unreported/ on the celebrity charts.
Had everyone possessed the insight and courage to do the same (and you
didn't need much insight - the facts were quite well known then!), we
would today be passing on to the next generation a beautiful, healthily
preserved, sensitively developed garden planet, instead of this
shameful, toxic, deeply disturbed mess.
Now people are beginning to be /forced/ to make those changes. Welcome
aboard Yuppies! Trendies! Punks! Metal Heads! Geeks! Corporates!
Smart Asses!
MOVIES: Milos Forman's '/HAIR, The Movie'/ (with commentary by Fraser)
and Peter Whitehead's/ 'Tonite, Let's All Make Love In London!'/
/ /
/"Intelligent alternative people today understand how the //Matrix//
//demonises// any threat - so rewind history and look past the non-stop,
decades-long, //_negative propaganda_// that's been projected about the
biggest //"//Peace//, Love &// //Green" ////Movement in human history.
Believe me, the Matrix was shaken to its very foundations, and it hit
back ruthlessly with every black op & propaganda tool in its armoury./
//
/"And, short-sighted as ever, the greedy Dinosaurs ensured that the
//Danger// that was well on the way to being averted has now reached
//Global Catastrophic //proportions." /Fraser Clark. //
_FREE_ @ RampArt Social Centre, 15-17 Rampart Street, E1 2LA
(Whitechapel, Aldgate East, Shadwell tubes + DLR & East London Line.)
Just off Commercial Road (not nearby Commercial Street.) 8-12ish pm.
Doors open 7.30pm.
Awkward to find so check map on
www.rampart.co.nr
<file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Administrator/Desktop/Documents/UP%21/www.rampart.co.nr%20>
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* Get UP! Stand Up For Your Rights! (and everybody else's too of
course! :)*
* u can't understand the world without innerstanding yourself*
* UP! 255 01 07 07*
* *LA- LA- LA- LAP-TOPPLING DA SYSTEM!
* u cant innerstand yourself without understanding the world*
* **** Get UP! And Don't Give Up The Fight! (only we don't mean
violence, ok? :)*
*
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* *FEATURING exclusive re-writes & re-mixes of da freshest deepest hacks
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SAMPLES from media & mentalities all over, & all bubbling up! from da
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contents...
p.04 DINOSAUR HEALTH 1 - Vaccinated Children in Danger!
p.05 DINOSAUR HEALTH 2 - Do Mammograms /_Cause_/ Breast Cancer?
p.06 Tony Blair / Peace Envoy / Irony Is Dead :(
p.07 Glastonbury Festival FEEDBACK**
p.08 Roswell Breeding 'Coincidence' FEEDBACK**
p.08 Salman Award FEEDBACK
p.10 *Young Americans Leaning Left As Post Dinosaur Era Marches On*
UP!
"Subscribe me to your fabbo ravings please!"
Jackie Juno, Manchester.
UP!
\)))))(/
_____,,,,*_{ô¿ô}_,,,,___*_fraser_
i've finally grokked something absolutely fundamental about the logic
of terrorism. i sort of generally intuited it before but the
impeccable military/industrial logic involved came as a bit of a
revelation.
the following are not my opinions. my opinions don't matter and neither
do yours or anyone's. these are simple sociological FACTS.
when a 'community' (in whatever sense the inhabitants define it) is
invaded and/or occupied, the response comes in gradations.
i. any kind of standing army is sent into battle. if they are defeated
or never had a chance anyway, the next step is...
ii. unable to resist head to head, the invades turn to guerrilla war,
sporadically and unpredictably attacking the enemy and his positions,
then disappearing before it can retaliate properly. a guerrilla war
gives the defenders much more chance: they might wear the invader down,
dispirit him, and particularly his taxpaying public back home.
however, if this goes on for years and years and the occupying enemy is
so strong that he's able to insulate and entrench his forces more and
more successfully while also establishing physical and psychological
"facts on the ground", what can be done then?
iii. the invaded 'martyrs,' 'freedom fighters' and 'nationalists' start
to go for 'soft' targets; meaning indirect military assets. they hit
the occupying enemy's personnel, his civilians, his supply, transport
and communication facilities, both in the occupied community and, if
possible, in the enemy's home country. remember, this is not my
opinion, and it's totally apart from any of our 'moral' opinions, it's
like a chemical reaction it DOES happen if the other things happen
first. and there's no point in feeling that humans should be better
than that, that it's sub-human to bomb schools, say, cos there WILL be
some of a higher spiritual dimension but, in any community, a certain
number WILL do it and this has to be taken into consideration before you
enter the aggression into the system. and if u haven't noticed this
exact process over the past few years in the middle east then you can
only be blinding yourself.
all of the above gradations of self-defence are logical and obvious.
and, judged as freedom fighting, even accepted as legitimate.
but what happens if, as uniquely happens today, the enemy invader is so
powerful and technologically superior that even his 'soft' targets are
pretty damn hard to approach or penetrate? can anything be done then?
are the 'patriots' forced simply to hang up their weapons and accept the
fact on the ground? in some countries this has happened. in others
suicide bombing will be tried, as we see in palestine, iraq, and elsewhere.
but how much can that actually achieve if the enemy is determined to
stay? if he has settled into an indefinite occupation where he is
trying to actually establish a new 'normality' that he hopes will
eventually be accepted by the majority (often called the 'moderates') as
a 'fact on the ground'?
now here comes my realisation:
iv. this is when the national defence forces shift to asymmetric
defense - like we see in iraq today, and which seems so 'illogical'. IT
IS NOT, IT IS INEVITABLE & IT IS THOROUGHLY LOGICAL. never mind soft
targets and suicide bombers, THE DEFENDERS SET OUT TO MAKE THE SOCIETY
WHICH THE OCCUPIER IS TRYING TO DOMINATE UNWORKABLE! THEY DESTROY
WHATEVER THEY CAN REACH. ELECTRICITY SUPPLIES, WATER, all the basic
amenities whose presence might lull the more passive 'apoliticals' into
acceptance of the occupation. THEY MIGHT EVEN INITIATE CIVIL WAR
BETWEEN SECTIONS OF THE INVADED COMMUNITY - IN SHORT, ANYTHING THAT
RENDERS THE INVADED SOCIETY DYSFUNCTIONAL.
in a weird but quite logical sense, the resistance forces thus establish
a stalemate, a kind of draw. neither side can win. THEY BASICALLY MAKE
THE POINT: WE MIGHT BE UNABLE TO RUN OUR OWN COMMUNITY, BUT YOU CAN'T
RUN IT EITHER!
and thus, since it costs very much less to drive a van to a crowded
market or religious centre or even a ladies' toilet and blow up
innocents than to maintain a nation-wide security apparatus to prevent
such acts, the nationalists can hope to 'turn' the enemy's dominance
into a bankrupted failure that eventually leads the enemy to admit
defeat and leave.
it may be immoral, it may be horrendous, but it is NOT 'irrational' or
'illogical' as it's always reported in our official media. it is, in
fact, the INEVITABLE consequence of feeding aggression into a system.
UP!
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TEXT JOCKEY //TJ PHRASER (Fraser Clark) & THE MEDIA EVOLUTION
MIXING THE TRACTS LIVE ON THE KEYBOARD
@ A MEDIA-MEME RATE OF 160 IPP * * Ideas Per Paragraph
TO SUBSCRIBE SOMEONE, WRITE I wanna get UP! TO
fraser at parallel-youniversity.com
TO UNSUBSCRIBE, HIT REPLY WITH REMOVE IN THE SUBJECT BOX
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Will You Dance with Me?
i was brought up to doubt myself, deny myself and hide myself.
/"ooh, you shine a bit too brightly, missy, just sit over there in the
corner and don't say anything, and hopefully everything will be all
right."/
and every time i twitched or muttered, they'd be onto me, jumping up in
their seats, /"what's she doing now? keep an eye on her, that one."/
/ /
but i grew strong and i grew sneaky and i learnt to dance on the tables
when their backs were turned. and now i love dancing on the tables so
much i don't ever want to stop. soon they're going to turn around and
see me, and it's going to freak them out a bit at first, but the more of
us that keep dancing, and the harder we dance, the quicker we can turn
those tables and create a fucking revolution.
miss magic, brighton & the world.
http://www.myspace.com/katemagic
UP!
UP!s BADDEST T-SHIRT OF THE WEEK
(send in examples pls :)
I
FUCK ON
THE FIRST
DATE
Please forgive the indelicacy but I think it's good, so there.
Much respect for your burblings an'at,
Hoppingglad, Oxford, Old England.
P.S. Keep smiling, it confuses the enemy.
UP!
DINOSAUR HEALTH 1
Vaccinated Children Two and a Half Times More Likely
* To Have Neurological Disorders Like ADHD and Autism*
A new survey indicates a strong correlation between rates of
neurological disorders, such as ADHD and autism, and childhood vaccinations.
The survey, commissioned by Generation Rescue, compared vaccinated and
unvaccinated children. Among more than 9,000 boys age 4-17, the survey
found vaccinated boys were
* two and a half times (155%) more likely to have neurological
disorders compared to their unvaccinated peers
* 224% more likely to have Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder
(ADHD)
* 61% more likely to have autism.
For older vaccinated boys in the 11-17 age bracket, the results were
even more pronounced. Vaccinated boys were
* 158% more likely to have a neurological disorder
* 317% more likely to have ADHD
* 112% more likely to have autism.
Generation Rescue discovered these facts via a phone survey in which
data was gathered by SurveyUSA, a national market research firm, which
surveyed parents on more than 17,000 children, ages 4-17, in 5 counties
in California and 4 counties in Oregon.
Amazingly, nobody had ever done such easy research!! CAN U BELIEVE
THAT?! Indeed in the words of J.B. Handley, co-founder of Generation
Rescue: "No one has ever compared prevalence rates of these neurological
disorders between vaccinated and unvaccinated children. The phone survey
isn't perfect, but these numbers point to the need for a comprehensive
national study to gather this critical information."
I SHOULD BLUDDY WELL THINK SO!!!!
In Washington, Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney (D-NY) who has been
advocating for such a survey said: "Generation Rescue's study is
impressive and forcefully raises some serious questions about the
relationship between vaccines and autism. What is ultimately needed to
resolve this issue is a comprehensive national study of vaccinated and
unvaccinated children. The parents behind Generation Rescue only want
information. These parents deserve more than road blocks, they deserve
answers. That's why I have introduced a common sense bill that would
require the National Institutes of Health (NIH) to conduct a
comprehensive, comparative study on the possible link between autism and
thimerosal."
IS THIS TOO MUCH TO EXPECT IN A DEMOCRACY??!! Especially when you
consider that, from 1983 to 2007, autism rates have climbed from 1 in
10,000 children to 1 in 150 children, a growth rate of 6,000%. ADHD
currently affects 1 in 13 children. In the same period, the recommended
vaccine schedule more than tripled.
http://www.generationrescue.org
up!
DINOSAUR HEALTH 1
Do Mammograms /_Cause_/ Breast Cancer?
Many women depend upon yearly mammograms to warn them of possible breast
cancer. Yet, as Dr. Blaylock points out in /The Blaylock Wellness
Report/, studies show mammograms actually /increase/ your risk of
developing breast cancer from 1-3% per year, depending on the technique
used.
Now that may not sound like a lot. However, if you religiously undergo
a mammogram every year for 10 years, you increase your risk from 10-30%
(and some radiation experts feel the danger is much higher than that).
Why? Because _the breast is one of your body's most sensitive areas
when it comes to cancers caused by radiation exposure._
Compounding that, by the age of 50, a full 45% of women will have cancer
cells in their breasts. This doesn't mean they will all develop breast
cancer, because in most women these cancer cells remain dormant.
But what it /does/ mean is that, if you are one of these 45% of women,
you are at high risk of spurring these cancer cells to full activity.
*NewsMax.com*
UP!
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the UP! is a global edutainment round-up, broadcast weekly to =[13,035]=
Alternative// Activist// Zippy// Trance// New Age// Peace folks
recommended to the Parallel YOUniversity// Megatripolis Dance Dept as
"showing signs of life". Since recipients forward it widely to their
own lists & sites
we conservatively estimate 50,000+ direct recipients.
A further 40,000 read it on the YOUniversity's site.
And, because of its 'mix' of 'specialist' & 'general' content,
it's increasingly being posted on a variety of sites worldwide,
making an estimated total weekly readership of =[275,000]=
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Everyone The US Fights In Iraq Is Now "Al-Qaida"
One of the most astonishing instances of mindless, pro-government
"/reporting"/ yet: it's a curious thing that, over the past 10 - 12
days, the news from Iraq refers to the combatants there as /"al-Qaida"/
fighters. When did that happen? ...
All of a sudden, every time one of the top US military commanders
describes the latest operations or quantifies how many were killed, the
enemy is referred to, almost exclusively now, as /"Al Qaeda." /But what
is even more notable is that the establishment press there has followed
right along, just as enthusiastically.
> > it's true! the obviously amateur and homegrown london bommings were
mostly reported as Al Queda attacks.
up!
and, talking about the "terrible" near tragedies in the UK, check out
this little list that day and LET'S ALL HANG OUR HEADS IN SHAME!
UK Terror Threat "Critical" as Glasgow Attacked
"Britain was braced last night for a fresh wave of terrorist attacks as
the national threat level was raised to 'critical' following an
attempted car bombing of Glasgow airport," write Mark Townsend, Jo
Revill and Paul Kelbie, The Observer UK.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/070107B.shtml
VV
"Up to 80 Civilians Dead" After US Air Strikes in Afghanistan
"Air strikes in the British-controlled Helmand province of Afghanistan
may have killed civilians, coalition troops said yesterday as local
people claimed that between 50 and 80 people, many of them women and
children, had died."
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/070107A.shtml
UP!
Tony Blair / Peace Envoy / Irony Is Dead
when i heard the news i realised that irony is dead - just as yanks are
beginning to get it!
here's a regular reader's letter:
Did I hear right?! The EU, UN (World 'leaders') reckon Tony Blair
should become a full time (was it?) 'ambassador' or 'peace envoy' to the
Middle East??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I mean it's arguably a bigger mistake than our Royals giving prizes to
Salman Rushdie, which makes me suspicious.
It could be a cunning plot that allows Tony to fully appreciate the fire
he's helped stoke. Or perhaps the idea is 'BL-AIR DISASTER' (in The
Sun) when his chinoock is gunned down by heavy fire over Iraq's new
poppy fields, near the Iranian border. [Note: just as suicide bombing
becomes vogue in Afghanistan, opium becomes the cash crop of choice in
Iraq = Total War].
Perhaps such a 'Spectacular Exit' in the Middle East would serve the
guilty, complicit, psychopathic and criminally insane better than, say,
a war crime tribunal in the Hague? There must be some people out there
who think this is a 'win-win'. Jesus, imagine a state like Iran or
Syria was blamed (for his plane crash).
Other than permanently moving to Florida, could Blair possibly secure
himself a worse legacy? (I just can't see Gaza working out for the
Blairs). Of course, that won't happen. If Blair was to get shot down,
kidnapped or anything else anywhere in the Middle East, it would be a
proper job - regardless of who was doing it. I guess the point is that
everyone has a motive; even the friends for whom he is a liability due
to Iraq.
Surely no-one actually believes that the man who put the co into
'coalition of the willing' and helped obliterate other peoples' homes,
lives and environment against all international guidance and law is
going to all of a sudden endear himself to the region he's helped
partially destroy. I suppose he needn't even try and endear himself. A
man who sells war and who then, when his war doesn't work out, sells
peace, must be quite struck by the enormity of his task. Not least by a
profound sense of irony. Apparently not....
With ongoing misery unfolding daily in Afghanistan and Iraq how can
anybody seriously consider Blair as an 'envoy' for the Middle East?
There must be more plausible motives for encouraging this man's rampant
ego and naivety.
Perhaps a 'coalition of the unwilling' should nominate Tony Blair for an
International War Crimes Tribunal before he settles into his new job (or
moves to California).
> > or joins his wars criminal buddy Bush, in Dubai, where half a billion
bucks will guarantee u immunity with swimming pools and gold taps for life.
marc deeley, london.
UP!
Glastonbury Festival FEEDBACK
hi, I think your comments about michael eavis are mean spirited and
small minded,
> > i considered that perception. but in the end i decided i would be
being immoral if i said nothing.
he may not have set up the original glastonbury by himself but he has
kept it going and made it a huge success, who cares if he made some
money about doing it
> > i did say he should keep SOME of the literally millions he stashed
away in carrier bags. and i DO know about this because of our court case..
or if some people feel he underpaid them, it is all typical of the anti
capitalist dream that anyone in this country that has success is derided
by those that think they and only they have some kind of moral high ground,
> > am not saying that, and i largely agree actually. but if u had heard
ALL the complaints that i received...
i have felt he should have had a knighthood years ago not a measly cbe.
as far as salman rushdie is concerned , i have never read any of his
work nor have 99.99999% of muslims i should think , but i reckon he has
had a pretty scary time of it for writing what he felt he should write
and i admire his guts. freedom of speech is of paramount importance and
he deserves an honour for defending it, whether giving him one now is a
good idea for this country is another matter as it will probably bring
down the wrath of the muslim fundamentalists on us in some way as
violence seems to be their way of protest.
Charles Style, Reading, UK
> > uno, it's inneresting that most people who've written in on this have
called those muslims bullies. inneresting when u consider that they
seem to be assuming that killing a million muslims is NOT bullying. as
i see it, killing a million is some kinda statement! so we should shut
up for a while yes?
up!
>> *michael eavis is not a BAD man,
this is where I differ. He is a nasty, scheming bully who has made
millions out of the festival, and bought up land from his neighbours
until he must now be the largest landowner in the county. He realised
early on that if he gave a contribution to a charity like Greenpeace or
Oxfam, people would think of him as a good guy doing it all for
charity. The donations represent a tiny portion of the profits.
I witnessed him once at the farmhouse screaming abuse at an entirely
inoffensive young couple who had come to the festival by horse and cart,
had been told to put their horse to graze in a field above the
Greenfield, and the horse had strayed somehow into a neighbours field
and started eating apples. Eavis was apoplectic, real nasty bullying
vitriol, I felt like decking him myself there and then.
He also employed known gangsters from Bristol as security even after
they has raped one woman, beaten up many nippy travellers, were known to
be selling smack, and had put another traveller in hospital for litter
picking AFTER the festival - which lots of people did as festival goers
can 'lose' or dump all manner of useful stuff which travellers then recycle.
> > he also avoided or refused to compensate poor James Yellow Submarine
who died (of a broken heart?) last week.
And remember, Eavis is a dairy farmer, and for the rest of the year is
engaged in white suffering - sending calves to be murdered so he can
profit from the milk.
* * *
*>> i once sued michael for screwing me around and then refusing to pay
the expenses involved. i won.
you have my admiration for standing up to the bully!
>> but the case had been so clear and straightforward that i puzzled
over why he'd allowed the matter to go to court. the answer seems to be
that few people ever stood up to him. during that time, indeed, i was
contacted with bitter complaints by SO many little people reliant on the
festival for their living and /afraid/ to protest openly that i was
shocked. i'll probly get a hundred such emails for publishing this.* *
you appear to be under no illusions, yet are still prepared to say he
isn't a bad man?*
* *
*/>> "I'm so pleased at this honour not only for myself, but for the
hundreds and perhaps thousands of people who have supported my ideas
through thick and thin."/ Michael Eavis on receipt of the award.
his ideas indeed, he's a user, sees himself as superior in every way to
the little people who he allows on his farm to make him money. He likes
to lord it over them, makes him feel even more special. I have long
detested him.
*peterpassword, wales.*
*up!
"I am convinced there are genuine and valid levels of perception
available with cannabis (and probably with other drugs) which are,
through the defects of our society and our educational system,
unavailable to us without such drugs." Carl Sagan.
UP!
Glastonbury In Comfort And Privacy
/Dave Matty spent the weekend hanging out at the 'other' side of
Glastonbury and not seeing any major bands at all!. He's blogging his
report on the BBC./
The TiPi village is unlike any other field at Glastonbury. Inhabited
mostly by full-time TiPi dwellers who reside in 'TiPi Valley' in
Llandeilo, Wales, there's a strong sense of shared-community here.
It's part of nature, living with nature. It's a village, it's a
commune. Hippies, diggers, dreamers, chanting, drumming, washing,
sustainable-living, wood-chopping, tea-brewing, juggling; even
mud-wrestling! It's a survival lifestyle.
Some years ago, regular TiPi dwellers pitched extra TiPis in the field
and hired them out for the weekend. Anyone with £1,400 to spare could
rent a TiPi and live amongst real TiPi people for a truly authentic
Glastonbury experience. It was a great alternative to camping in
'babylon' (green-field slang for the non green-fields). The TiPi field
was safer and quieter and the TiPi 'lodges', as they were known, were
warmer and more comfortable to sleep in. It was also considered to be
/'cool'/ to hang out with the hippies for the weekend.
Those hiring the lodges were making lots of money and soon many others
were doing the same. But before long there were so many hired TiPis
that the field quickly became overcrowded. There wasn't much room for
the 'real' TiPi people anymore. There were also concerns that those
renting the lodges were /'outsiders'/; city-people who didn't understand
or participate in, communal TiPi living.
I spoke to Mike, a TiPi dweller who has been coming to Glastonbury since
1971.
/"The TiPi field has traditionally been full of people who own their own
TiPis or have lived in TiPis or who know how to live in TiPis. There's
a certain 'realness' about it."/
So this year, Michael Eavis has set aside a special field exclusively
for hired lodges. But you'll have to search hard to find it. It's
outside the perimeter fence, across a bridge and closed to anyone else.
But a friend and I managed to blag our way in for a nose around.
There are private, clean porta-loos; a sauna and a cosy but expensive
cafe (replete with drum-kit for whoever is performing that night). The
lodges are also dry and spacious. But there are few fires burning
inside and no sign of communal cooking or wood-chopping. There's no
/'vibe' /like the real TiPi field and it seems too 'separate' from the
rest of the festival. Too 'exclusive' to be part of it. My friend
compared it to a Butlins holiday camp, with TiPis instead of chalets.
All that seemed to be missing was a PA system to wake everyone up in
the morning with a jolly, /"Hi-Di-Hi!"./
Many of the residents here had missed-out on purchasing tickets for the
festival and hiring a TiPi with tickets included was the only
alternative. Others had chosen to hire a TiPi for the comfort and
privacy it afforded. I spoke to two Glastonbury first-timers who had
hired a TiPi for the weekend.
/"We get showers, we get a sauna and we get our own toilets which aren't
as disgusting as the other ones" /said one. /"It's brilliant. There's
more space here and there's an excellent cafe, too", /said another.
The new field seems a great idea if you want to experience the festival
in comfort and style, without the hassle of bringing your own camping
gear or trying to pitch your tent in the mud or braving the toilets.
But isn't getting wet and muddy what Glastonbury's all about?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/glastonbury/2007/greenfields/tipi.shtml
UP!
Roswell Breeding Coincidence FEEDBACK
Hi Fraseer, still enjoying your work. But the Roswell Coincidence in
UP! 254 just didn't ring true. May I refer you to
http//:www.snopes.com/politics/humor/roswell.asp
<file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Administrator/Desktop/Documents/UP%21/http/:www.snopes.com/politics/humor/roswell.asp>
Keep on keeping on,
nick fosbery, paris.
> > it was a joke a joke! :)
this is not 4 u, nik, but here's what i sent to a good friend who wrote
in what u wrote in:
i considered putting a ' :) ' at the end of the alien breeding line but
decided none of my readers were dumb enuff to misunderstand where i was
coming from. me and my assumptions its terrible :(
(actually i inserted the smiley in the last 5000 UP!s after the reply
came in.)
UP!
Salman Award FEEDBACK
1. though salman rushdie got knighted for "services to literature",
he's no great writer as writer; lets' remove that possibility
immediately. he has some brilliant width but very little depth. he is
flash, mentally sophisticated, wide and superficial. what's that got to
do with it? well, if he'd been a shakespeare then there might have been
an exceptional reason to 'make a stand' and risk inflaming the second
largest religion in the world with whom we're practically at war.
but listen, while it's our duty to speak up when freedom of speech is
threatened, royally blessing a venomous attitude to muslims when our
armies have just slaughtered a million of them (for no apparent reason)
is just, well, the english dictionary doesn't possess a disgusted enough
world for it.
This is nonsense, I'm afraid.
First, you don't need to be another Shakespeare to be knighted.
> > my point was that, if we'd been talking about a shakespeare, THEN it
might be ok to go ahead and give salman the gong DESPITE the world
situation. but he's VERY FAR from being that and therefore it is a
foolish or aggressive move.
Rushdie's writing is certainly of a high enough standard for a
knighthood judged against current levels.
> > it's a separate argument. i don't myself agree. and watching tv
tonight, of the ten people out of a hundred who seem to have read one of
his books, 9 of them didn't finish.
Secondly, he's a Muslim himself (or was)
> > but THAT is crucial. if he was STILL a muslim, well, there might be
some point.
so we should respect his right to talk about his own culture any way
that he wants, just as we'd do for any Jewish or Catholic writers
respectively.
> > on a level surface i of course agree with u. but a million dead is
not something small and irrelevant, izzit?
I agree totally about the war in Iraq, but that has nothing at all to do
with the rights and wrongs of Satanic Verses.
> > not only iraq. palestine too. afghanistan. and others, indeed all
the arab countries.
after all, we're in some kinda relationship. if we want a happy
marriage there are times when truth can be said and times when it isn't
sensible. just sensible how about that?
2.
Hi!
Well, you obviously don't think much of Rushdie's writing but others
obviously do. I think you'd find most people wouldn't get through a
Milton poem or a Tolstoy novel, but this means nothing in terms of their
quality.
> > it doesn't in itself prove they're any good tho.
You also often find some of the greatest literature is before its time.
> > have u read him? i've only read one of his novels and it was as i
described it.
The point is that enough people adjudged Rushdie's work of sufficient
quality for the knighthood.
As to his not being a Muslim any more (maybe he still is, I don't know),
surely we would not deny a lapsed catholic to criticise the Vatican.
> > but not if we'd just killed a million of them that's my point. do u
or do u not count a million killed as some kinda statement? so we
should be listening for a while NOT advertising our celebration of their
most bitter critic.
Neither, then, should we deny THIS man's right to criticize aspects of
Islam.
> > not when we just killed a million etc that's our only disagreement.
Apart from the fact that Satanic Verses was only one of quite a varied
output, (if I remember rightly, his next book was for children) why are
we accepting the word of the extremist Muslims against a liberal minded
man such as Rushdie that what he says is blasphemy!?
> > i don't accept ANY of that. it's simple good manners to me. if i
kill a million of your friends it would be rude to start criticising
your clothes style, yes? leave it for a while till things have settled.
Would we go to the extreme-right Christians of Southern States USA to
decide whether someone writing about Christianity was blasphemous or
not? Of-course we wouldn't.
> > all this agreed.
I think it's good that whoever decides on knighthoods had the strength
of character to ignore the rantings of extremists and 'state of the
world' and judge the literature of this man simply by standards of
aesthetics, whether you agree with their opinion of him or not which,
of-course, you are at liberty to do.
> > all this agreed, but not while the killing is going on.
The fact that you would have condoned this had Rushdie been another
Shakespeare actually destroys the logic of your own argument.
> > well... my point was that if rushdie had been in that class (which he
ABSOLUTELY is not and nobody is claiming he is) THEN it might have been
okay to do it. am saying leave it till later - that's if there ever is
a later. when things settle down. ask the half a million mothers.
I deprecate the pressure put on Denmark after THAT cartoon. OK. We may
say that it was in bad taste, but that didn't mean that those extremists
were right to react in the way they did.
> > these are 2 separate points. i don't think we must be rude to them
just because we refuse to care how they react. we must have our own
standards and one of them is being civil. and indeed free speech relies
on civility of some kind. and when you've just slaughtered a million
(remember that no. in everything u write) it's not civil to then add
"btw your religion is totally fukked too" yes?
Where I agree with you, however, is that it was totally immoral to bomb
100,000 plus Iraqis to death to give them 'democracy', and (I'm Jewish,
by the way), equally immoral to do what Israel has been doing to the
Palestinians for the last couple of decades or more.
> > i am so glad and respectful to hear u say that. did u have any
reaction to the other stuff i was sounding off about?
To return to the main topic, however, once you start to pander to
extremists of ANY type, that's where the thin end of the wedge of loss
of freedom of speech begins.
> > totally agreed. but that million? if it was only a thousand dead?
ten thousand? a hundred thou...? it just feels wrong. it IS wrong.
To show the logic of my argument...
Should we have censored anti-Nazi writings before the war on the grounds
of the 'state of the world' for fear of offending Hitler and his minions?
> > no. because we hadn't occupied THEIR country. if we'd invaded
germany, killed 200000 germans and arrested and tortured hitler then i
woulda said: lay low on the anti nazi stuff for a while lads :)
Earl Okin. Virginia, US.
UP!
*Young Americans Leaning Left
As Post Dinosaur Era Marches On *
According to a New York Times/CBS News/MTV poll, .young Americans are
more likely than the general public to favour
* a government-run universal health care insurance system
* an open-door policy on immigration
* the legalisation of gay rights
They are also more likely to say the war in Iraq is heading to a
successful conclusion.
> > they've see so many movies where "our" soldiers win in the final
frame i guess.
The poll also found that substantially more Americans aged 17 -29 than
four years ago are paying attention to the presidential race. But they
appeared to be really familiar with only two of the candidates, Senators
Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton, both Democrats.
They have continued a long-term drift away from the Republican Party.
And although they are just as worried as the general population about
the outlook for the country and think their generation is likely to be
worse off than that of their parents, they retain a belief that their
votes can make a difference.
54% intend to vote a Democrat for president in 2008. They share with
the public a negative view of President Bush, who has a 28% approval
rating with this group, and of the Republican Party. They hold a
markedly more positive view of Democrats than they do of Republicans.
At a time when Democrats have made gains after years in which
Republicans have dominated Washington, young Americans appear to lean
slightly more to the left than the general population: 28% described
themselves as liberal, compared with 20% of the nation at large. And
27% called themselves conservative, compared with 32% of the general public.
44% believed same-sex couples should be permitted to get married,
compared with 28% of the general public. They are more likely than
their elders to support the legalisation of possession of small amounts
of marijuana.
62% said they would support a universal, government-sponsored national
health care insurance program; 47% of the general public holds that
view. And 30% said "Americans should always welcome new immigrants,"?
while 24% of the general public holds that view.
In one potential sign of shifting attitudes, respondents, by
overwhelming margins, said they believed the nation was prepared to
elect as president a woman, a black person or someone who admitted to
having used marijuana. But they did not believe Americans would elect
someone who had used cocaine or who was a Mormon. Mr. Obama has
suggested he used cocaine as a young man. Mitt Romney, the former
governor of Massachusetts and a candidate for the Republican nomination,
is a Mormon.
42% thought it was likely or very likely the nation would reinstate a
military draft over the next few years. 87% said they opposed a draft.
They thought Republicans were more likely to go for a draft.
Many have a bleak view about their own future and the direction the
country is heading: 70% said the country was on the wrong track, while
48% feared their generation would be worse off than their parents'. But
this generation of Americans is not cynical: 77% thought the votes of
their generation would have a great bearing on who became the next
president.
> > tho they probably don't yet know that what a pol says doesn't at all
define what he'll end up doing. that's when the cynicism might kick
in. or the evolution.
58% said they were paying attention to the election campaign. By
contrast, at this point in the 2004 campaign, only 35% said they were
doing so.
43% held an unfavourable view of Mrs. Clinton, a number that reflects
the tide of resistance she faces nationwide. By contrast, only 19% had
an unfavorable view of Mr. Obama.
UP!
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