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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I do condemn very much "the mass civilian
bombing of cities that were mainly full of women and children" - on both sides.
That is, I condemn BOTH sides for doing that. What's different in this
regard, with the war against Iraq, is that there is only one side to condemn.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=machinevman@hotmail.com href="mailto:machinevman@hotmail.com">noone
noone</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=sheffield-anti-war-coalition@yahoogroups.co.uk
href="mailto:sheffield-anti-war-coalition@yahoogroups.co.uk">sheffield-anti-war-coalition@yahoogroups.co.uk</A>
; <A title=Ssf@lists.aktivix.org
href="mailto:Ssf@lists.aktivix.org">Ssf@lists.aktivix.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A
title=project-fallujah@lists.aktivix.org
href="mailto:project-fallujah@lists.aktivix.org">project-fallujah@lists.aktivix.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 17, 2004 11:06
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [sheffield-anti-war-coalition]
RE: [Ssf] The White Rose</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><TT> I don't understand what they mean by "fanaticism" do
they think that it is <BR>extreme to want a foreign occupier to leave their
country. I remember my <BR>history classes well, this country fought
toof and nail to prevent a foreign <BR>power from occupying it in WW2, even to
the point mass civilian bombings on <BR>cities that were mainly full of women
and children, currently britain and <BR>the US are fighting toof and nail to
stay in Iraq which is slightly ironic. <BR>If this motion is going to
somehow condemn "both sides" then i will not be <BR>supporting
it.<BR><BR>from<BR>cuthbert<BR><BR><BR><BR>>From: "2 % Human"
<adam@diamat.org.uk><BR>>To:
<BR>>sheffield-anti-war-coalition<sheffield-anti-war-coalition@yahoogroups.co.uk>,
<BR>>
Ssf@lists.aktivix.org<BR>>CC:
project-fallujah@lists.aktivix.org<BR>>Subject: [Ssf] The White
Rose<BR>>Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 07:31:17 +0000<BR>><BR>>Ayup
Lists,<BR>><BR>>Project Fallujah
[1]<BR>>====================<BR>><BR>>"I repeat, that all power is a
trust, that we are accountable for its <BR>>exercise, and that, from the
people, and for the people, all springs, and <BR>>all must exist" -
Benjamin Disraeli<BR>><BR>>On 7 November 2004, I emailed the 84
councillors of Sheffield [2] with a <BR>>request to consider twining our
City with that of Fallujah [3]. This <BR>>request springs from the
blackness of the unfolding events, and a desire to <BR>>do something,
anything to positively intervene.<BR>><BR>>Eleven councillors have
replied so far. By far the most positive reply is <BR>>from Jillian Creasy
[green]; her reply is a matter of public record [4]. <BR>>There are other
positive replies from a few of our Labour councillors. <BR>>There has also
been some very cold-faced replies from this group too. I <BR>>understand
that the Labour Group have met and decided that they will not be
<BR>>putting the request before council.<BR>><BR>>Never-the-less,
Jillian is going to put a *motion* to full council on <BR>>Wednesday 1
December 2004 and it is likely that there will be a free
vote.<BR>><BR>>I received a response from a representative of the
Liberal Party, which <BR>>suggested that they, or rather at least some of
their members, could be <BR>>persuaded to support this *motion* provided
that the substantive issue of <BR>>fanaticism is
addressed.<BR>><BR>>( There is also a secondary procedural issue that
would need to be dealt <BR>>with, concerning the priority given to Fallujah
over other cities that the <BR>>Council are considering as twins.
)<BR>><BR>>I have received no response from the
Conservatives.<BR>><BR>>Email List<BR>>----------<BR>><BR>>An
email list has been set up by Atavix [5] to help manage this project.
<BR>>You can subscribe to the project list here: <BR>><A
href="http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/project-fallujah.">http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/project-fallujah.</A><BR>><BR>>I
shall send this email, together with an invitation to join this list, to
<BR>>all interested parties, including each of our councillors. This list
is an <BR>>open list and has open archives. It is hoped that other people
interested <BR>>in this project will join and help out.<BR>><BR>>It
would be helpful, if the first thing that this list was able to
<BR>>concentrate upon, was the *humanitarian* issues, which are the basis
of the <BR>>*motion*. I trust that our concerns, competently expressed,
will enable <BR>>Jillian to form a *motion* that will gain wider
support.<BR>><BR>>Time is of the essence; this *motion* needs to be
submitted by the 23 <BR>>November 2004. This being the case, I ask that
comments / suggestions are <BR>>made quickly in order that they may be
collated in advance of the dead <BR>>line.<BR>><BR>>I will now
attempt to get the ball rolling with my two
farthings:<BR>><BR>>I. Humanitarian
Issues<BR>>###########################<BR>><BR>>"Never apologize for
showing feeling. When you do so, you apologise for <BR>>truth." - Benjamin
Disraeli<BR>><BR>>The atrocities unleashed upon Fallujah are in mind
equivalent to the <BR>>atrocities unleashed upon Guernica [6]. It is
difficult to stand idly by, <BR>>and read report after report of the
carnage being inflicted upon the people <BR>>of Iraq. Children are being
ripped to bits before our very eyes. Margaret <BR>>Hassan has been defiled
and used as a pawn. Prisoners are being defiled and <BR>>used for porn. I
feel that we must do something to protest against these <BR>>atrocities and
I am frustrated that our own government appears to stand <BR>>firmly behind
this barbarism.<BR>><BR>>David Blunkett's flat refusal to take on board
the comments of Kofi Annan <BR>>[7] testifies to his black and white take
on this issue. I, like many <BR>>others in this City, wish to distance
myself from his perspective and seek <BR>>to establish some civil avenue by
which to help the people of Fallujah, and <BR>>thereby help
ourselves.<BR>><BR>>Sheffield is a cosmopolitan city. The population
includes many people who <BR>>have settled here from the middle east. These
people, our people, are <BR>>integrated in to our work and social
structures and are our mates. The <BR>>words of sympathy expressed by our
government about the collateral carnage <BR>>inflicted by its foreign
policy holds little or no weight with many of our <BR>>citizens. We are
becoming more and more disenfranchised from this countries <BR>>formal
modes of representation and this I fear will lead to civil unrest.
<BR>>Last weeks bombings in Holland indicate how fast the mind-set of
nation can <BR>>divide.<BR>><BR>>What are our options
?<BR>>----------------------<BR>><BR>>New social structures are
growing in the form of Internet based <BR>>communities. In these
communities, of which Project Fallujah is one, we are <BR>>able to express
our opinions openly and learn from one another in the
<BR>>process.<BR>><BR>>These communities are implicitly
non-hierarchical and are governed by group <BR>>consensus. These
communities are implicitly non discriminatory; often the <BR>>sex, shape,
colour and age of a group member is not known, or for that <BR>>matter
whether the member is disabled or deformed in any way. Because of
<BR>>this, these structures have an in-built inclusivity that surpass this
<BR>>countries present modes of representation.<BR>><BR>>I ask that
the councillors take part in our discussions and represent our
<BR>>interests.<BR>><BR>><BR>>II.
Fanaticism<BR>>##################<BR>><BR>>"Sweet moderation, the
heart of this nation, Desert us not, we are between <BR>>the wars." - Billy
Bragg<BR>><BR>>Being brought up in this area instills a healthy distaste
for fanaticism. <BR>>It begins in the play ground when confronted by the
football fans of our <BR>>many local
teams.<BR>><BR>> "Who do you support ?"
they would ask.<BR>><BR>>If you gave the *wrong* answer, you would be
hit. As a strategy, one learns <BR>>to answer in the following
manner:<BR>><BR>> "I'm not so bothered
about any particular team, but I do like to watch a <BR>>good
match"<BR>><BR>>What we have in Fallujah is not a good
match.<BR>><BR>>Many fouls have been committed, many more are being
committed whilst I <BR>>type. It appears to be a war between fanatics, and
it is now spilling out <BR>>on to the
terraces.<BR>><BR>>--<BR>>Margaret Hassan : Still<BR>>Stuart Gray
: Still<BR>>Paul Lowe : Still<BR>>Scott McArdle :
Still<BR>><BR>>Sign-up : <A
href="http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/project-fallujah">http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/project-fallujah</A><BR>><BR>>[1]
Idea: <A
href="http://lists.aktivix.org/pipermail/ssf/2004-November/000232.html">http://lists.aktivix.org/pipermail/ssf/2004-November/000232.html</A><BR>>[2]
<A
href="http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/your-city-council/councillors">http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/your-city-council/councillors</A><BR>>[3]
Example mail to councillors: <BR>><A
href="http://lists.aktivix.org/pipermail/ssf/2004-November/000239.html">http://lists.aktivix.org/pipermail/ssf/2004-November/000239.html</A><BR>>[4]
Jillian's Response: <BR>><A
href="http://lists.aktivix.org/pipermail/ssf/2004-November/000263.html">http://lists.aktivix.org/pipermail/ssf/2004-November/000263.html</A><BR>>[5]
<A href="http://www.aktivix.org/">http://www.aktivix.org/</A><BR>>[6] <A
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Guernica">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Guernica</A><BR>>[7]
<A
href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3988691.stm">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3988691.stm</A><BR>><BR>>Between
The Wars<BR>>----------------<BR>><BR>>I was a miner, I was a
docker<BR>>I was a railwayman between the wars<BR>>I raised a family in
time of austerity<BR>>With sweat at the foundry, between the wars<BR>>I
paid the union and as times got harder<BR>>I looked to the government to
help the working man<BR>>They brought prosperity, down at the
armoury<BR>>We're arming for peace, my boys, between the
wars<BR>><BR>>I kept the faith and I kept voting,<BR>>Not for the
iron fist, but for the helping hand<BR>>Theirs is a land with a wall around
it<BR>>And mine is a faith in my fellow man<BR>>Theirs is a land of hope
and glory<BR>>Mine is the green field and the factory floor<BR>>Theirs
are the skies all dark with bombers<BR>>Mine is the peace we knew between
the wars<BR>><BR>>Call up the craftsmen, bring me a
draughtsman<BR>>Build me a path from cradle to grave<BR>>And I'll give
my consent to any government<BR>>That does not deny a man a living
wage<BR>>Go find the young men, never to fight again<BR>>Call up the
banners from the days gone by<BR>>Sweet moderation, the heart of this
nation,<BR>>Desert us not, we are between the wars<BR>><BR>>-- Billy
Bragg<BR>><BR>>_______________________________________________<BR>>Ssf
mailing list<BR>>Ssf@lists.aktivix.org<BR>><A
href="http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/ssf">http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/ssf</A><BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Want
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