[SSC] Membership types and contributions

Tue Mar 1 14:35:12 UTC 2011

On 01/03/11 14:17, Terry Wassall wrote:
> I agree that the finances must be sorted and secure as just about
> everything else will depend upon this. Living and working in Leeds it
> looks as if I will be a peripheral member and occasional participant
> at best, if there is such a category of involvement. Even so, I will
> happily make a cash contribution. The discussion taking place now and
> the eventual setting up and success of the Centre will be of great
> importance for the proliferation of other Centres in other locations.
> This is where my longer term interest and involvement might come to
> lie (short of moving to Lincoln when I retire!).  I would love to see
> something like this going on in Leeds or Bradford. Both have
> established and thriving Social Centres (The 1 in 12 Club in Bradford
> and the The Common Place in Leeds) and these may be good starting
> points for Social Science Centres offering a service to the existing
> Social Centre members and the immediate local communities. I will be
> happy to contribute financially to the Lincoln project as I would see
> it as an investment in the possible extension of the model elsewhere,
> regardless of whether I could contribute in other ways or not.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Terry
> 
> 

That's wonderful, Terry. Add your name to the tentative members list I
circulated last night (on Google docs)! This is very much the spirit of
what I hope we all create together. Just as we can draw from the
experiences of the Social Centre network and other co-operatively run
organisations, I hope that our experience can be a source of inspiration
and a rehearsal for similar Centres elsewhere. This discussion list, for
example, provides a useful public record and we should endeavour to
document our experience periodically through the SSC website.

Joss

> Dr. Terry Wassall Principal Teaching Fellow School of Sociology and
> Social Policy University of Leeds
> 
> http://www.sociology.leeds.ac.uk/about/staff/wassall.php Public
> Sociology Blog: http://www.sociology.leeds.ac.uk/public/
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org
> [mailto:ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org] On Behalf Of Joss Winn Sent:
> 01 March 2011 12:42 To: ssc at lists.aktivix.org Subject: Re: [SSC]
> Membership types and contributions
> 
> 
> 
> On 01/03/11 12:25, Terry Wassall wrote:
>> Hi Joss. Thanks for the clarification.
>> 
>> In one of my management jobs at Leeds Uni I had access to the the 
>> list of employees' salaries in my dept. In the spreadsheet all the 
>> professors were listed as $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ (appropriately) as there 
>> salaries are negotiated with the Uni and they are not employees of 
>> the dept. as such. Some of the salaries are way over the scale 10 
>> £56k! At least at Leeds they are.
>> 
>> I think, if fees are going to be stratified in some way then a 
>> notional 1 hours net pay per month sounds reasonable. I think
>> there would still have to be some flexibility though as part-timers
>> would be paying disproportionately if they just divide they net
>> monthly income by the hours they work.
> 
> Agreed. I'm proposing a self-assessment based on trusting members to 
> contribute as close to the suggested amount as possible in their
> given situation. The scale I set out earlier today would be available
> as a quick reference guide as to what they should first consider.
> More or fewer contributions would be at the discretion of the
> individual.
> 
> Sound OK? Anyone else got any ideas around this subject?
> 
> As I see it, as much as talking about money at this stage might be 
> uncomfortable, it will be even more uncomfortable if we have take on 
> students without a five year 'business plan'. Having a framework for 
> funding at an early stage, gives us as much assurance as we might
> hope for.
> 
> Of course, the other question remains: What do we need the money
> for?
> 
> Joss
> 
>> Their fee would be the same as a full-timer on the same hourly
>> rate. There could be some adjustment based on the proportion of,
>> say, 36 they work. I assume that state pensioners and people in
>> reciept of benefits would be free. I think the general point is
>> that not all individuals on the same net income have the same
>> discretionary disposable income. Quite often when a low income is
>> already fully committed to basic and living expenses there isn't
>> anything left over. Some of my junior academic colleagues are in
>> this postion even though their salaries look quite reasonable, 
>> especially now their low rate fixed term mortages have had to be 
>> renegotiated, spiralling costs and a rise of only 10% of the
>> increase in CPI. Small extra expense can be a tipping point. As
>> someone said, if you are standing on tip toes to keep your head
>> above water a very small additional rise in level can drown you. I
>> guess each case would have to be assessed on merit in some way.
>> Have any other funding models been discussed? I find it hard to
>> think of any within the spirit of the project.
>> 
>> Best wishes
>> 
>> Terry
>> 
>> Dr. Terry Wassall Principal Teaching Fellow School of Sociology
>> and Social Policy University of Leeds 
>> ________________________________________ From: 
>> ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org [ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Joss Winn [joss at josswinn.org] Sent: 28 February 2011
>> 23:56 To: ssc at lists.aktivix.org Subject: Re: [SSC] Membership types
>> and contributions
>> 
>> On 27/02/11 19:57, Terry Wassall wrote:
>>> Dear All
>>> 
>>> Thanks Joss for sending round the notes etc. so quickly. As I
>>> said before, I am very sorry I was not able to come to the
>>> meeting. Sounds like you had a really interesting discussion. I
>>> have just got back from a weekend in an internet free part of
>>> Scotland, practically mobile phone network free as well. I will
>>> try to respond to the emails in reverse order over the next day
>>> or so startng with the first about membershipd
>>> fees/contributions.
>>> 
>>> There is quite a broad band of professorial salaries, starting
>>> not much above the senior lecture salary. Some profs. also have 
>>> additional incomes related to their professorial work. If the
>>> prof rate is used as a benchmark then presumably lecturers A, B,
>>> Senior etc. will be proportionate, say £80, £160, £240 and £300+.
>>> Some more junior academic staff may be on part-time of fixed
>>> term contracts, and so the a varity of circumstances will need to
>>> be considerd and allowed for. Then at any one time there will be 
>>> different numbers of students with varying numbers of them able
>>> to pay anything. A general quesion is whether the 'fee's model
>>> is likely to be adeqate and equitable.
>>> 
>>> Many academics might be willing to contribute, their subject 
>>> expertises, their materials, their experience of being learners 
>>> and researchers, their ability to be facilitators of discussion 
>>> etc., maybe even their travel expenses to attend face-to-face 
>>> sessions. They may not be willing to pay a fee to do so. One
>>> answer to this would be, of course, if they are not commited
>>> enough to the idea and the ethos, then the Centre doesn't want
>>> them.  There could be differeing views on this.
>> 
>> Hi Terry,
>> 
>> I would agree with your latter point. As a non-hierarchical 
>> organisation, we're all contributing time/effort *and* money
>> relative to what we earn elsewhere according to what is likely to
>> be equitable and affordable.
>> 
>> Let's think of it this way:
>> 
>> An academic on grade 10, at the top of the pay scale is earning 
>> about £56K (I guess a lot of Profs. negotiate their own salaries
>> off of the formal pay scale??)
>> 
>> So someone on £56K, might be expected to pay a membership fee of 
>> £300/year. That person is *taking home* a net pay of around
>> £142/day or £712/week or £19/hr. We're suggesting that they work
>> just over one hour a month in order to earn the suggested £25/month
>> membership fee.
>> 
>> The bottom of Grade 9 is £46K and a take home wage of £120/day or 
>> £603/week or £16/hr. So a suggested membership fee at this level 
>> might be £18/month, again, just over one hour's net salary.
>> 
>> If I take my own salary of about £32K, I take home about
>> £428/month or £12/hour, so my contribution might be £15. My own
>> salary happens to also be our total household income at the moment,
>> but I know I can afford this kind of contribution.
>> 
>> These are rough calculations, but you get my point. We can aim to 
>> ask people to contribute at least one hour of their monthly take
>> home salary to the SSC. Shift the focus away from the £££ and to
>> the actual time they work elsewhere in order to keep the SSC
>> running. I'd work for an hour a month and give that income to the
>> SSC. I think others would, too.
>> 
>> I'll come up with a more accurate suggested scale of salary vs. 
>> contribution based on this idea in the next day or so.
>> 
>> Joss
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> I agree with Richard's comments about the need to have some sort 
>>> of costing and projections. I guess you could call this, between 
>>> gritted teeth, a business plan. This would need some sort of 
>>> consideration about sustainability, in terms of finances and 
>>> objectives, and any obvious risk factors (for instance, under 
>>> recruitment of paying students). Have a realistic idea of what
>>> the costs would actually be is another way of estimating
>>> contributions as these could be divided, suitably weighted by
>>> income, across the membership.
>>> 
>>> As far as 'profit' or a surplus is concerned, I think there may
>>> be 2 main reasons for needing this - the financial sustainability
>>> of the Centre for at least 3 to 5 years (to do right by the
>>> students who enrol and to give the project the time to develop
>>> and solve the problems and issues that will arise) and to fund
>>> the further development of the Centre. This may not only be in
>>> terms of social science activity. I understand there has been
>>> some discussion of embarking upon other sorts of activities and
>>> services in the Centre that may raise money.
>>> 
>>> Best wishes
>>> 
>>> Terry
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dr. Terry Wassall Principal Teaching Fellow School of Sociology 
>>> and Social Policy University of Leeds 
>>> ________________________________________ From: 
>>> ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org [ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org] On
>>>  Behalf Of Joss Winn [joss at josswinn.org] Sent: 27 February 2011 
>>> 12:19 To: ssc at lists.aktivix.org Subject: [SSC] Membership types 
>>> and contributions
>>> 
>>> One of the things we discussed for some time in the pub after the
>>>  meeting on Thursday is the need to decide what types of
>>> membership there will be at the SSC and how much we hope/expect
>>> people to contribute.
>>> 
>>> Let's use this discussion thread to work that out. One question 
>>> that I think Mike raised was that we might first ask what do we 
>>> need the money for?
>>> 
>>> As for membership types, these might be academic, student,
>>> general supporter, etc. or we might not distinguish between these
>>> at all.
>>> 
>>> As for the amount of contribution, Mike (a Professor), thought it
>>>  reasonable to ask that other Profs. contribute between 
>>> £300-£500/year or roughly £30+ /month.
>>> 
>>> I think the general agreement at the pub (outside of the formal 
>>> meeting when some people were no longer present) was that people
>>>  should self-assess their income and pay a fee that was matched
>>> to an income category roughly in line with what Profs. Snr.
>>> Lecturers and Lecturers (and possibly one more level) are
>>> earning. Low wage and unemployed would pay nothing.
>>> 
>>> So, what do you think about all of this? Please send your ideas
>>> to this thread so we can come to a decision on this.
>>> 
>>> Thanks very much Joss
>>> 
>>> 
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