[sheffield-anti-war-coalition] RE: [Ssf] The White Rose

John el.loveislife at virgin.net
Wed Nov 17 17:46:42 GMT 2004

I do condemn very much "the mass civilian bombing of cities that were mainly full of women and children" - on both sides. That is, I condemn BOTH sides for doing that. What's different in this regard, with the war against Iraq, is that there is only one side to condemn. 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: noone noone 
  To: sheffield-anti-war-coalition at yahoogroups.co.uk ; Ssf at lists.aktivix.org 
  Cc: project-fallujah at lists.aktivix.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 11:06 AM
  Subject: [sheffield-anti-war-coalition] RE: [Ssf] The White Rose

    I don't understand what they mean by "fanaticism" do they think that it is 
  extreme to want a foreign occupier to leave their country.  I remember my 
  history classes well, this country fought toof and nail to prevent a foreign 
  power from occupying it in WW2, even to the point mass civilian bombings on 
  cities that were mainly full of women and children, currently britain and 
  the US are fighting toof and nail to stay in Iraq which is slightly ironic.  
  If this motion is going to somehow condemn "both sides" then i will not be 
  supporting it.


  >From: "2 % Human" <adam at diamat.org.uk>
  >sheffield-anti-war-coalition<sheffield-anti-war-coalition at yahoogroups.co.uk>, 
  >        Ssf at lists.aktivix.org
  >CC: project-fallujah at lists.aktivix.org
  >Subject: [Ssf] The White Rose
  >Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 07:31:17 +0000
  >Ayup Lists,
  >Project Fallujah [1]
  >"I repeat, that all power is a trust, that we are accountable for its 
  >exercise, and that, from the people, and for the people, all springs, and 
  >all must exist" - Benjamin Disraeli
  >On 7 November 2004, I emailed the 84 councillors of Sheffield [2] with a 
  >request to consider twining our City with that of Fallujah [3]. This 
  >request springs from the blackness of the unfolding events, and a desire to 
  >do something, anything to positively intervene.
  >Eleven councillors have replied so far. By far the most positive reply is 
  >from Jillian Creasy [green]; her reply is a matter of public record [4]. 
  >There are other positive replies from a few of our Labour councillors. 
  >There has also been some very cold-faced replies from this group too. I 
  >understand that the Labour Group have met and decided that they will not be 
  >putting the request before council.
  >Never-the-less, Jillian is going to put a *motion* to full council on 
  >Wednesday 1 December 2004 and it is likely that there will be a free vote.
  >I received a response from a representative of the Liberal Party, which 
  >suggested that they, or rather at least some of their members, could be 
  >persuaded to support this *motion* provided that the substantive issue of 
  >fanaticism is addressed.
  >( There is also a secondary procedural issue that would need to be dealt 
  >with, concerning the priority given to Fallujah over other cities that the 
  >Council are considering as twins. )
  >I have received no response from the Conservatives.
  >Email List
  >An email list has been set up by Atavix [5] to help manage this project. 
  >You can subscribe to the project list here: 
  >I shall send this email, together with an invitation to join this list, to 
  >all interested parties, including each of our councillors. This list is an 
  >open list and has open archives. It is hoped that other people interested 
  >in this project will join and help out.
  >It would be helpful, if the first thing that this list was able to 
  >concentrate upon, was the *humanitarian* issues, which are the basis of the 
  >*motion*. I trust that our concerns, competently expressed, will enable 
  >Jillian to form a *motion* that will gain wider support.
  >Time is of the essence; this *motion* needs to be submitted by the 23 
  >November 2004. This being the case, I ask that comments / suggestions are 
  >made quickly in order that they may be collated in advance of the dead 
  >I will now attempt to get the ball rolling with my two farthings:
  >I.      Humanitarian Issues
  >"Never apologize for showing feeling. When you do so, you apologise for 
  >truth." - Benjamin Disraeli
  >The atrocities unleashed upon Fallujah are in mind equivalent to the 
  >atrocities unleashed upon Guernica [6]. It is difficult to stand idly by, 
  >and read report after report of the carnage being inflicted upon the people 
  >of Iraq. Children are being ripped to bits before our very eyes. Margaret 
  >Hassan has been defiled and used as a pawn. Prisoners are being defiled and 
  >used for porn. I feel that we must do something to protest against these 
  >atrocities and I am frustrated that our own government appears to stand 
  >firmly behind this barbarism.
  >David Blunkett's flat refusal to take on board the comments of Kofi Annan 
  >[7] testifies to his black and white take on this issue. I, like many 
  >others in this City, wish to distance myself from his perspective and seek 
  >to establish some civil avenue by which to help the people of Fallujah, and 
  >thereby help ourselves.
  >Sheffield is a cosmopolitan city. The population includes many people who 
  >have settled here from the middle east. These people, our people, are 
  >integrated in to our work and social structures and are our mates. The 
  >words of sympathy expressed by our government about the collateral carnage 
  >inflicted by its foreign policy holds little or no weight with many of our 
  >citizens. We are becoming more and more disenfranchised from this countries 
  >formal modes of representation and this I fear will lead to civil unrest. 
  >Last weeks bombings in Holland indicate how fast the mind-set of nation can 
  >What are our options ?
  >New social structures are growing in the form of Internet based 
  >communities. In these communities, of which Project Fallujah is one, we are 
  >able to express our opinions openly and learn from one another in the 
  >These communities are implicitly non-hierarchical and are governed by group 
  >consensus. These communities are implicitly non discriminatory; often the 
  >sex, shape, colour and age of a group member is not known, or for that 
  >matter whether the member is disabled or deformed in any way. Because of 
  >this, these structures have an in-built inclusivity that surpass this 
  >countries present modes of representation.
  >I ask that the councillors take part in our discussions and represent our 
  >II.      Fanaticism
  >"Sweet moderation, the heart of this nation, Desert us not, we are between 
  >the wars." - Billy Bragg
  >Being brought up in this area instills a healthy distaste for fanaticism. 
  >It begins in the play ground when confronted by the football fans of our 
  >many local teams.
  >      "Who do you support ?" they would ask.
  >If you gave the *wrong* answer, you would be hit. As a strategy, one learns 
  >to answer in the following manner:
  >      "I'm not so bothered about any particular team, but I do like to watch a 
  >good match"
  >What we have in Fallujah is not a good match.
  >Many fouls have been committed, many more are being committed whilst I 
  >type. It appears to be a war between fanatics, and it is now spilling out 
  >on to the terraces.
  >Margaret Hassan : Still
  >Stuart Gray : Still
  >Paul Lowe : Still
  >Scott McArdle : Still
  >Sign-up : http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/project-fallujah
  >[1] Idea: http://lists.aktivix.org/pipermail/ssf/2004-November/000232.html
  >[2] http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/your-city-council/councillors
  >[3] Example mail to councillors: 
  >[4] Jillian's Response: 
  >[5] http://www.aktivix.org/
  >[6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Guernica
  >[7] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3988691.stm
  >Between The Wars
  >I was a miner, I was a docker
  >I was a railwayman between the wars
  >I raised a family in time of austerity
  >With sweat at the foundry, between the wars
  >I paid the union and as times got harder
  >I looked to the government to help the working man
  >They brought prosperity, down at the armoury
  >We're arming for peace, my boys, between the wars
  >I kept the faith and I kept voting,
  >Not for the iron fist, but for the helping hand
  >Theirs is a land with a wall around it
  >And mine is a faith in my fellow man
  >Theirs is a land of hope and glory
  >Mine is the green field and the factory floor
  >Theirs are the skies all dark with bombers
  >Mine is the peace we knew between the wars
  >Call up the craftsmen, bring me a draughtsman
  >Build me a path from cradle to grave
  >And I'll give my consent to any government
  >That does not deny a man a living wage
  >Go find the young men, never to fight again
  >Call up the banners from the days gone by
  >Sweet moderation, the heart of this nation,
  >Desert us not, we are between the wars
  >-- Billy Bragg
  >Ssf mailing list
  >Ssf at lists.aktivix.org

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