[ssf] Re: Remember Falluja...

[atw]

Mr> I find demo's can be similar in their effects although more cathartic and so
Mr> more 'empowering'.

Yeah good demos can be good. The anti-Bush one in London stands out in
my opinion.



>>As media events they don't work because
>> they are always ignored. 

Mr> Not necessarily, some are covered by the media and most demo's are not
Mr> covered either.

I'm not aware of any Sheffield vigil that has ever been covered. Some
Sheff demos definitely have been - even making it to front page
occassionally.




>>Therefore the only people who see them are
>> passers by at the time of the event, and often its not clear what
>> "that funny group of people over there" are even doing anyway.

Mr> That's a matter of communication through banners or leaflets which is the
Mr> case with demo's as well, where people are not sure what "that funny group
Mr> of people over there" are marching about for anyway.

I'm not convinced that the centre of town is the best place for
leafletting. There are so many leafletters there all the time people
can switch off. I sometimes think door to door might be better. People
are a bit more relaxed and have more time when sitting at home. And
one leaflet can be read by the entire household.



>> I suspect many people feel like this as vigils frequently get low turn
>> outs.

Mr> They generally get far less publicity and are not supported by the usual
Mr> 'left' groups. And they do appear to achieve less because you don't 'do
Mr> anything', yet it all revolves around what you are actually doing. A demo is
Mr> about publicity at the end of the day, it's about saying "this number of
Mr> people did this for this cause", so there is no difference whether they are
Mr> marching about or standing still.

But if no one knows about it what's the point?




>> It seems to me that the prime goal of the vigil is to alleviate the
>> guilt of those responsible (us). We feel we 'must' do something, so we
>> just do anything, however completely ineffective. 

Mr> And the difference with demo's is...?

I think demo's are only slightly better. I'm not a great fan of those
either. There are other kinds of action that are likely to have more
effect and be more empowering.

Generally the more the risk the more empowering and more effective an
action is likely to be - but that is a generalisation.




>> The nice thing about
>> vigils are that they are completely risk free. You don't even the run
>> the risk of criticism since it's hard to have a go at someone for
>> simply remembering the dead.

Mr> Agreed it is not confrontational, yet that is the strength of vigils, they
Mr> can reach out in a way that confrontation does not and they retain respect.
Mr> The vigils for Iraq at the start of all this were a strong and popular
Mr> measure, the long lasting Hunters Bar vigil was a case in point, good
Mr> reaction and good publicity.


I can imagine the Hunters Bar one being popular because lots of
traffic goes past. But what do they actually do? People say we're
against the war and those in agreement agree with them.




>> Afterwards we can go home feeling slightly better about ourselves.
>> Switch on TV and watch the horrible stuff happening in the world with
>> a slightly clearer concience. "At least I did something," we can tell
>> ourselves. But did we?

Mr> Again, the same could be argued of the more cathartic demo's, have a good
Mr> shout, sell a few newspapers, run about a bit, get it out of your system and
Mr> then forget about it.


Yeah demos are fairly crap too. They have to get some cops out though
meaning at least the establishment has acknowledged that something has
taken place.



>> There are surely better things we could do. Even small demo's are
>> better than vigils.

Mr> Different things appeal to different people, it is not what sort
Mr> of demonstration that is important, it is how that demonstration
Mr> is carried out. A vigil organised in an effective way,
Mr> communicating well to the media could involve just a few dedicated
Mr> people and acheive more publicity and effect more pressure on
Mr> those in power than a march of a million people (which as we know
Mr> achieved f*** all). I like the idea that is we had a million
Mr> people in London, to encircle the houses of parliament and stay
Mr> there, not necessarily blocking the streets, just staying there,
Mr> watching vigil. I think such an action has a nobility that
Mr> marching and shouting cannot acheive. But again, different things
Mr> appeal to different people so there is no absolute right or wrong
Mr> way in vigil or demo etc. Just that the action should be planned
Mr> well to be effective.


Agreed. If there is a plan to do a vigil in a different, more
effective way than the normal Sheffield Town Hall thing I might well
participate.

But the standard format really gets me down I have to say. I leave
feeling weak and ineffective and that I've just wasted my time, stood
about in the cold, for no good reason.

steve





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