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<P>Sounds like a wicked idea - and no, not nearly enough is happening in Sheffield. Interesting questions to raise, eg. what role MATILDA will play, and how to broaden the Movement's reach in Sheffers. Enormous kudos to that post inspired by the Leeds barrio, it's so good that the G8 protests were a catalyst rather than an end in themselves.<BR>PS. ISYF are putting on a monster gig for Uganda/political subversion in September! Follow developments on our website (www.isyf.tk)<BR>Edward<BR><BR></P><BR><BR><BR>>From: ssf-request@lists.aktivix.org<BR>>Reply-To: ssf@lists.aktivix.org<BR>>To: ssf@lists.aktivix.org<BR>>Subject: ssf Digest, Vol 12, Issue 7<BR>>Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 12:00:08 +0100<BR>><BR>>Send ssf mailing list submissions to<BR>> ssf@lists.aktivix.org<BR>><BR>>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<BR>>
http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/ssf<BR>>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<BR>> ssf-request@lists.aktivix.org<BR>><BR>>You can reach the person managing the list at<BR>> ssf-owner@lists.aktivix.org<BR>><BR>>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>>than "Re: Contents of ssf digest..."<BR>><BR>><BR>>Today's Topics:<BR>><BR>> 1. [FSE-ESF] Re: Why SWP undermined social forums? (Jon Cloke)<BR>> 2. Right! Who's up for a bit of Sheffield Social Forum action<BR>> then? (Dan)<BR>> 3. Re: Right! Who's up for a bit of Sheffield Social Forum<BR>> actionthen? (Alice
Collins)<BR>><BR>><BR>>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>><BR>>Message: 1<BR>>Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 14:56:26 +0000<BR>>From: "Jon Cloke" <damage61@hotmail.com><BR>>Subject: [ssf] [FSE-ESF] Re: Why SWP undermined social forums?<BR>>To: dan@aktivix.org, uksocialforum@lists.riseup.net,<BR>> ssf@lists.aktivix.org, g8-sheffield@lists.aktivix.org,<BR>> anotheresfispossible@lists.riseup.net,<BR>> esfdemocracy_eurodebate@lists.riseup.net, fse-esf@ras.eu.org,<BR>> fse-esf@fse-esf.org<BR>>Message-ID: <BAY107-F464679DD5D250064AEAC9C3D00@phx.gbl><BR>>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed<BR>><BR>>Dan,<BR>><BR>>Your frustration is understandable, but you have to understand that what you<BR>>classify as stupidity by the SWP is actually something rather more sinister.<BR>>When the
Rees/Callinicos clone addresses the multiplicity of social<BR>>movements that have arisen since Seattle and 1999, it says that the SWP has<BR>>identified itself with these struggles and joined in with them; what it<BR>>should actually say, as with StW and GR, is that what the SWP is good at is<BR>>identifying new movements early on and then rapidly organizing a hegemonic<BR>>leadership body dominated by the SWP, which is interested not in joining in<BR>>with new movements, but in taking them over and co-opting their aspirations<BR>>and frustrations as part of their messianic self-belief system - a good<BR>>recent example of this is the No2ID movement, another SWP stooge.<BR>><BR>>The problem for the SWP in all of this is two-fold. Firstly, horizontalists,<BR>>experienced political activists and other more open folk who believe in more<BR>>democratic,
participatory organizations and methods can see this coming a<BR>>mile off and refuse to accept the bullshit, understanding the need for such<BR>>campaigns and joining in to the extent that they can without accepting the<BR>>dictatorship of the cupula of SWP comandantes - the<BR>>Rees/Callinicos/German/Nineham entity. As such groups continuallly point out<BR>>the reality of SWP autocracy, the SWP is unable to adopt the democratic<BR>>colouration to which it has pretensions (in spite of the reality of its'<BR>>actions) and so lashes out savagely at anybody who dares to cast aspersions<BR>>on the semi-divine utterances of the pantheon of SWP holies.<BR>><BR>>Secondly, despite what the white male middle-class elite of the SWP thinks,<BR>>people aren't stupid. Even where the SWP is temporarily able to take over<BR>>leadership of new, broad-based movements
which are born of a genuinely<BR>>popular fury and frustration, the honeymoon is short. As with StW and GR,<BR>>political newbies who may have become active for the first time as a result<BR>>of various events and actions start looking around and demanding a voice in<BR>>their own movement, understanding that it's no good to complain about the<BR>>way the system is run if you haven't got a better way of running it. At<BR>>which point they're told to shut up, stop complaining and sell some more<BR>>copies of the Stepford Worker.<BR>><BR>>At which point they do indeed shut up. And leave.<BR>><BR>>It is one of the great ironies of the Social Forum movement, that the most<BR>>powerful and well-organized of its' member organizations here in the UK is<BR>>itself a living reminder of the only good thing about Tony Blair - that he<BR>>isn't John
Rees/Alex Callinicos/Chris Nineham. Because if he was, and they'd<BR>>been in power in the UK since 1997 you and I, Dan, and most of the other<BR>>horizontals would be in a prison or a gulag by now. The SWP is itself that<BR>>thing of which it pretends to be the cure.<BR>><BR>>Jon Cloke (ATTAC UK)<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>From: Dan <dan@aktivix.org><BR>>To: SF UK <uksocialforum@lists.riseup.net>, SSF <ssf@lists.aktivix.org>,<BR>> G8 Sheffield <g8-sheffield@lists.aktivix.org><BR>>Subject: Why SWP undermined social forums?<BR>>Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 15:34:34 +0100<BR>><BR>>Hey up,<BR>><BR>>Just got forwarded this little snippet from the Conference proceedings of<BR>>2004 SWP annual conference. As usual, I really can't quite believe anyone<BR>>would be so stupid. Sectarian? Oh yeah - we're
sectarian if we don't do what<BR>>the SWP thinks is right - I forget. Bloody hell - I try to get over it and<BR>>just chill out, then I read something like this! AAAUGH!<BR>><BR>>“Because of the presence revolutionary socialists in the leadership of the<BR>>Stop the War Coalition, the anti-war movement has come to occupy the radical<BR>>space occupied in France by ATTAC or in Italy by the social forums and,<BR>>later, the anti-war movement.<BR>><BR>>"This is why attempts by the sectarian left to supplant the Stop the War<BR>>Coalition by social forums have failed and deserve to fail. Such attempts,<BR>>portrayed as a programmatic shift to left (because social forums raise<BR>>issues of economic exploitation as well as war), would in practice be a move<BR>>to the right because they undermine the attempt to break the Blair<BR>>government over the
issue on which it is most vulnerable.”<BR>><BR>>http://www.swp.org.uk/resources/Conference2004.pdf<BR>><BR>>Dan<BR>><BR>><BR>>---<BR>>Lista para la preparacion del Foro Social Europeo - List to prepare the European Social Forum - Liste pour préparer le Forum Social Européen.<BR>>---<BR>>NETIQUETTE. Topic : 2006 ESF preparation + follow-up of the campaigns discussed during the previous ESF. Language : messages are in English or in two European languages.<BR>>---<BR>>Subscribe / Unsubscribe: webmaster@fse-esf.org (usually responding in 24h. Done by voluntary work therefore do not hesitate to smile often and send back request if you do not have fast enough answer.)<BR>><BR>><BR>>------------------------------<BR>><BR>>Message: 2<BR>>Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 17:00:37 +0100<BR>>From: Dan <dan@aktivix.org><BR>>Subject: [ssf]
Right! Who's up for a bit of Sheffield Social Forum<BR>> action then?<BR>>To: Ssf@lists.aktivix.org<BR>>Message-ID: <42D7DDA5.1030801@aktivix.org><BR>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<BR>><BR>>Hallo all,<BR>><BR>>The G8 has passed, and so I'm bound to ask: who wants to meet and talk<BR>>about the SSF?<BR>><BR>>Three things that occur to me:<BR>><BR>>1. Planning for a full Sheffield Social Forum event in 2006: who wants<BR>>to do this?<BR>>2. SSF campaigns - any thoughts?<BR>>3. Getting a bank account, then getting some money. I have the forms,<BR>>we merely need two people willing to be signatories, one person able to<BR>>fill in forms - oh, and a bland constitution. Peezy. Then we can start<BR>>getting money in!<BR>>4. An SSF meet - a bit like the one in
February, with food n stuff. A<BR>>mini-forum, maybe with music and suchlike...<BR>><BR>>Anything else?<BR>><BR>>The other option is, of course: 'there's too much going on in Sheffield<BR>>now, wot with Matilda n all - maybe SSF died n went to leftie heaven.'<BR>><BR>>Thoughts to the list please,<BR>><BR>>love<BR>><BR>>Dan<BR>><BR>><BR>>------------------------------<BR>><BR>>Message: 3<BR>>Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 10:45:34 +0100<BR>>From: "Alice Collins" <Angeltime@btopenworld.com><BR>>Subject: Re: [ssf] Right! Who's up for a bit of Sheffield Social Forum<BR>> actionthen?<BR>>To: "Dan" <dan@aktivix.org>, <Ssf@lists.aktivix.org><BR>>Message-ID: <000d01c589eb$20f2a560$9865fea9@yourylehr3adon><BR>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>><BR>>Hi Dan and
everyone,<BR>>I'm up for talking about SSF.<BR>>How about meeting at Matilda?<BR>>Love alice.<BR>><BR>>----- Original Message -----<BR>>From: "Dan" <dan@aktivix.org><BR>>To: <Ssf@lists.aktivix.org><BR>>Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 5:00 PM<BR>>Subject: [ssf] Right! Who's up for a bit of Sheffield Social Forum<BR>>actionthen?<BR>><BR>><BR>> > Hallo all,<BR>> ><BR>> > The G8 has passed, and so I'm bound to ask: who wants to meet and talk<BR>> > about the SSF?<BR>> ><BR>> > Three things that occur to me:<BR>> ><BR>> > 1. Planning for a full Sheffield Social Forum event in 2006: who wants<BR>> > to do this?<BR>> > 2. SSF campaigns - any thoughts?<BR>> > 3. Getting a bank account, then getting some money. I have the forms,<BR>> > we merely need two people willing to
be signatories, one person able to<BR>> > fill in forms - oh, and a bland constitution. Peezy. Then we can start<BR>> > getting money in!<BR>> > 4. An SSF meet - a bit like the one in February, with food n stuff. A<BR>> > mini-forum, maybe with music and suchlike...<BR>> ><BR>> > Anything else?<BR>> ><BR>> > The other option is, of course: 'there's too much going on in Sheffield<BR>> > now, wot with Matilda n all - maybe SSF died n went to leftie heaven.'<BR>> ><BR>> > Thoughts to the list please,<BR>> ><BR>> > love<BR>> ><BR>> > Dan<BR>> ><BR>> > _______________________________________________<BR>> > ssf mailing list<BR>> > ssf@lists.aktivix.org<BR>> >
http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/ssf<BR>><BR>><BR>>------------------------------<BR>><BR>>_______________________________________________<BR>>ssf mailing list<BR>>ssf@lists.aktivix.org<BR>>http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/ssf<BR>><BR>><BR>>End of ssf Digest, Vol 12, Issue 7<BR>>**********************************<BR></DIV></div></html>