[Anarchafeminists] [project2012] May2nd Fem Manifesto Fwd: Family / Sex Work etc

Mon May 3 12:40:20 UTC 2010

Hi Jasper,
i dont think this conversation has happened on this list (i've seen these
messages on the election meltdown list) but the list address was included
in the email. A moderator has probably had to approve Chris's message.
If people want to continue the conversation with chris, lyndsay and mark#
then i think thats great. i would also welcome the discussion on this
list.
una

> Hi,
>
> Sorry, I am confused, where is this conversation taking place?  What is it
> in response to? I am surprised to see an email from Chris Knight about
> prostitution in my inbox on the anarcha feminist list!  Are people being
> invited to join in with their tuppance?  I'm sure there's plenty of people
> on this list who could step the level of thought up a bit but is it worth
> it?
>
> Jasper
>
> On 3 May 2010 08:50, Chris Knight
> <governmentofthedead at googlemail.com>wrote:
>
>> I am sorry if I have sounded a little sharp on this issue. Apologies
>> especially to Lindsey. But I still feel neither of you are getting it.
>> Let me quote Marx word for word: 'Prostitution is only a specific form
>> of the universal prostitution of the worker.' So OF COURSE WE ARE
>> AMBIVALENT ABOUT PROSTITUTION! WE ARE AMBIVALENT ABOUT WAGE-SLAVERY IN
>> GENERAL! The goal of trade union organisation is a limited one: it
>> means fighting for better conditions of work for people who are
>> prostitutes (of one kind or another). Naturally, it would be better to
>> abolish wage-slavery (including prostitution) altogether.
>>
>> The question is whether the emancipation of the working class is the
>> task of the working class itself. If you think it is, then clearly
>> trade union rights for prostitutes (as for other wage-slaves) is a
>> first step and an absolutely necessary one.
>>
>> Lindsey, you say: "Of course people have rights but is it what people
>> should have to do in an unalienated and free society? Should our
>> highest aspiration be the unionisation of prostitutes or is there (as
>> Engels said ) the need for a society where women - and men for that
>> matter - don't need to sell their bodies?".
>>
>> So let me translate. Of course workers have have rights but is
>> wage-slavery what people should have to do in an unalienated and free
>> society? Should our highest aspiration be the unionisation of
>> wage-slaves - or is there (as Engels said ) the need for a society
>> where people don't need to hire out their bodies at all?
>>
>> I often hear people mutter under their breathe: 'You should only do it
>> for love'. A very good idea. But why pick on sex-workers? Why lecture
>> to them that they should only do it for love? How many people in other
>> fields of work 'only do it for love? Most people hire out their bodies
>> day after day week after week to pay the rent, pay for the shopping
>> etc. Once we've abolished wage-slavery, I am sure all work will be
>> done for love. Good idea. Meanwhile, though, let's not get too
>> moralistic  about sexwork. I would have thought banking was just as
>> immoral, yet don't we let bank-workers join trade unions! Workers in
>> the arms industry too. Or do we say they are 'not really workers',
>> just 'victims of the system'? That would be patronising nonsense,
>> obviously. Let's show one another some elementary solidarity,
>> regardless of which PARTICULAR KIND OF PROSTITUTION each of us happens
>> to have been forced into by the system.
>>
>> By the way, just in case anyone is interested, I wrote a whole book on
>> this subject. It's called 'Blood Relations: Menstruation and the
>> origins of culture' (Yale University Press 1995). Most people who've
>> read it say it's a very good book. It's about how our ancestors dealt
>> with similar problems during the 'human revolution' which occurred in
>> Africa some hundred thousand years ago. We abolished prostitution
>> once. We can do it again. But it will need a revolution -- a
>> repetition on a higher scale of the one in which our species was born.
>> The message of my book is that language, kinship and culture emerged
>> on the picket line. Now as in the distant past, everyone is welcome to
>> join. No moralistic hang-ups, no elitism and no exclusions, please.
>> We're all in this together.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On 25 April 2010 12:02, Mark Barrett <marknbarrett at googlemail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi Everyone
>> >
>> > Some might be interested in exchange below.
>> >
>> > Hopefully many people will attend the May2nd event (the day after
>> > coming to Meltdown!) see, for more information
>> >
>> http://www.counterfire.org/index.php/theory/133-counterforum/4676-public-event-a-feminist-manifesto-for-the-21st-century
>> > and then we may even get some extra feminist revolutionary campers for
>> > Parliament Square..
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> >
>> > Mark
>> >
>> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> > Hi Mark, sorry I've taken so long to get back to you. Was on holiday
>> > when you wrote and it got stuck in a backlog. I tend to agree with you
>> > about sex work _ of course people have rights but is it what people
>> > should have to do in an unalienated and free society? Should our
>> > highest aspiration be the unionisation of prostitutes or is there (as
>> > Engels said ) the need for a society where women -and men for that
>> > matter - don't need to sell their bodies? And you're right that the
>> > privatised family is at the centre of these questions.
>> >
>> > We're having another feminist manifesto meeting on Sunday 2nd May 5pm
>> > at SOAS room G2 if you're interested. You're very welcome.
>> >
>> > best,
>> >
>> > Lindsey
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> > Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 21:32:03 +0100
>> > Subject: Family
>> > From: marknbarrett at googlemail.com
>> > To: Lindsey German
>> >
>> > Dear Lindsey
>> >
>> > Just a quick note to follow our earlier exchange via Chris Knight, by
>> > saying that personally I am ambivalent about sex work.
>> >
>> > On the one hand people should be protected as workers, while on the
>> > other for me the whole sex and porn world, like environmental
>> > degradation and cruelty in general are all signs that patriarchy and
>> > the moral dead end capitalist mode of production it happily co-exists
>> > with still exists, its salient features being the objectification and
>> > commodification of the natural world in general for the benefit of the
>> > powerful few and to the disadvantage of the weak and those without the
>> > power of arms / money /access to the corridors of power at their
>> > disposal. The sex industry - like all the industries based on
>> > exploitative power relations - should be resisted, but at the same
>> > time its workers - like mother nature as a whole- protected.
>> >
>> > Is that too contradictory? I am still trying to work this out, I find
>> > the issue immensely difficult - rather as with abortion. Perhaps the
>> > two strands relate to the need for regulation and reform, but also at
>> > the same time social revolution otherwise we end up with at best only
>> > protection but no paradigmatic liberation. Which is why, for me the
>> > aim of a historic break with the privatised family - interestingly
>> > students at the secondary school where I work instinctively understand
>> > this point when I broach it with them - is by far the most interesting
>> > and potentially pivotal prospect.
>> >
>> > Interested to know where you are at with the Manifesto project, and
>> > looking forward to being able to assist you in some way. Please do
>> > keep me posted...
>> >
>> >
>> > Best wishes
>> >
>> > Mark
>> > www.meltodown.uk.net
>> > Watch this nice video about Election
>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X92f7H1vrJU
>> > And Bring Pop Up Tents!!
>> >
>> > --
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>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Chris Knight
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> click, whir.
>
> Jasper Murphy
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