[Campaignforrealdemocracy] 'Wealth' Discussion Fwd: [project2012] Re: Statement about Economics & Real Democracy

Thu Aug 6 07:29:46 BST 2009

re: definition of WEALTH

John de Rivaz said:

"In the information age, sharing can increase world wealth enormously, because giving information does not decrease your information."

http://www.flickr.com/photos/russell-higgs/70036813/

:) Russell

________________________________
From: Robin Smith <robinsmith3 at googlemail.com>
To: Mark Barrett <marknbarrett at googlemail.com>
Cc: campaignforrealdemocracy at lists.aktivix.org
Sent: Wednesday, 5 August, 2009 18:58:26
Subject: Re: [Campaignforrealdemocracy] 'Wealth' Discussion Fwd: [project2012] Re: Statement about Economics & Real Democracy

Why create new and confusing terms. When we already have perfectly adequate ones

Natural wealth cannot be wealth in the economic sense. No one created
it. No economy was required for it to exist.

To avoid confusion shall we stick to plain old fasioned "wealth".
Otherwise we may stray into areas such as declaring "slaves" as
natural wealth.

I'm hoping to show that wealth in the economic sense can only be
things that are made through labour, using natural resources.

Brgds

2009/8/4 Mark Barrett <marknbarrett at googlemail.com>:
> Here's Dave Wetzel's take on the question. Can we build a statement
> around it?
>
> -------------
> How about considering man-made wealth and natural wealth?
>
> The former includes buildings, clothes, tools, computers, furniture,
> vehicles, machinnery etc.
>
> The latter includes, land, the spectrum, the seas and oceans, sea-life,
> plants, wildlife, oil, gas, coal, wood and water.
>
> Capital is man-made wealth used for producing more wealth. So factories,
> warehouses, offices, machinery, craftsmen's tools are  all capital.
>
> consider a bicycle for sale in a cycle shop window - it is man-made wealth
> and is capital.
> If the purchaser uses it for pleasure  - it is man-made wealth but not
> capital - it is a consumer good.
> However, a bicycle used by a window cleaner for his business is capital.
>
> Land is natural wealth. All land value should belong to the community - not
> landowners.
>
> 2009/8/4 Mark Barrett <marknbarrett at googlemail.com>
>>
>> FYI see below.
>> Does  anyone else feel like putting forward their own definition of
>> wealth?
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> Hi Robin
>>
>> I like the idea you've put forward, of doing a statement that even a child
>> can understand. With justice in this context aren't we talking about the
>> ideal of "economic democracy" ?
>>
>> Democratic justice being about equal rights to share
>> in power, including political-economic power..
>>
>> About wealth: isn't the earth and its various resources, including the
>> people who inhabit it and their productions the primary human treasury? In
>> my view these real resources should be conserved, and wherever
>> possible used appropriately ie to the furtherance of equality, justice,
>> ecological stewardship and spiritual well being. Of course individual
>> endeavour must be rewarded, but also, somehow, the benefits of humanity's
>> collective work, and the basic value of the whole earth should be shared
>> equally as a basic starting point.
>>
>> And isn't that where LVT comes in?
>>
>> As Winstanley put it, better than almost anyone "the earth is a common
>> treasury for all". [Or, "the meek shall inherit the earth"] ;
>>
>> Are we both talking about the commonwealth?  I am just guessing, am no
>> expert.
>>
>> How would others describe wealth? Robin, what is your answer or statement
>> regarding (1)?
>>
>> Cheers, Mark
>> PS I will forward this discussion to the Project 2011 list to see what
>> others come up with.
>> 2009/8/4 Robin Smith <robinsmith3 at googlemail.com>
>>>
>>> Certainly can. Though myself I'm looking for a "just" society first
>>> and foremost.
>>>
>>> 1) On Economics: The nature of wealth and how it is produced and
>>> distributed, for all. Economic justice
>>>
>>> 2) On Land Value: This is a subset of economic justice. This is very
>>> simple once we have agreed on 1)
>>>
>>> Shall we start by defining what we mean by "wealth"? I'd like to hear
>>> what you all have to say about that?
>>>
>>> Brgds
>>>
>>> 2009/8/4 Mark Barrett <marknbarrett at googlemail.com>:
>>> > Dear Robin
>>> >
>>> > Please can we start drafting a statement about economics and land
>>> > value,
>>> > here, as you see it, in relation to how this will make for a really
>>> > democratic society?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks
>>> > Mark
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Campaignforrealdemocracy mailing list
>>> > Campaignforrealdemocracy at lists.aktivix.org
>>> > https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/campaignforrealdemocracy
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Best Wishes,
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> Dave Wetzel – CEO
>> "Transforming Communities".
>> Sustainable Transport Policies ▪ Public Finance with Social Inclusion ▪
>> Affordable Housing ▪ Economic Land Policies with Justice.
>>
>> Tel: 0208 568 9004
>> Intl:+44 208 568 9004
>>
>> Mobile/Cellphone: 07715 32 29 26
>> Intl: +44 7715 32 29 26
>>
>> e-mail: davewetzel42 at googlemail.com
>>
>> 40 Adelaide Terrace. Great West Road.
>> Brentford. LONDON. TW8 9PQ. UK
>> Web: www.LabourLand.org
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> "We hear men speaking for us of new laws strong and sweet /Yet is there no
> man speaketh as we speak in the street.”
>
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-- 
Economics Comment
http://gco2e.blogspot.com/

Work
http://www.systemicfiscalreform.org/

About Me
http://fon.gs/robinsmithme/

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