[Campaignforrealdemocracy] Democracy, Justice, Community, Trust

[Justin Baidoo-Hackman]

The family is not a model of democracy nor justice!

Sorry to make my first email a contentious one but I want to contest Robin's
last email and address his questions:

Is democracy without justice worth having?

Depends who you are and what you define as "justice". I would argue that a
just society has never existed but many societies have claimed to be a
democracy. The athenian democracy was based on slavery and most
"democracies" historically have excluded large sections of people whether by
gender, age, race or economic status.

If you believe that a just society shouldn't discriminate on any or some of
these things then we can say that democracy and justice are not mutually
inclusive.

Must democracy come before justice?
Again it depends on your definition of justice! I would claim that liberty
is dependent on being able not only to act without coercion but also to
enable people to flourish whilst being responsible to themselves and the
community they reside.

Democracy means people rule, if the people don't rule but rather are
instructed by others how they can live... can justice be possible? I think
not.

What's the reality?
I guess that as long as humans are capable of infinite wants on a world with
finite resources. We are perpetually limited by our environment (including
other people). How there is a question of distribution and management of
resources.

It is not true that families are democratic (neither should they be when it
involves minors), there is usually patriarchial hierarchy that decides how
resources are used and can often exploit their children for the parents
gain.

Ah but maybe Robin means the ideal middle class family where the division of
labour has been agreed by the parents and the children grow up into
considerate and responsible adults.

They probably refrain from fee paying education and private tutors as they
want their offspring to learn that applied intelligence and effort rather
than the ability to pay for assistance is how to get ahead. They never fail
to apply the correct punishment and so the appropriate level of praise and
reward to encourage...

Nonsense if you think most people have experienced that. I'm grateful for my
parents but it was quite dysfunctional in modest and always unintended ways.

However we could learn that if we treated all peopple as if they were
extended family, we could get closer to achieving justice. But this would
mean radical change in the economic system we live in. The elites aren't
feeling the brotherly love yet and I doubt they ever will.

Societies are made up of differing and competing interests. Elites have
conflicting interests with the downtrodden this isn't short-termist thinking
it is survival instinct. Survival and maintenance of the elite.

I think communities are built on shared experience and interests. Family is
our first experience of community and it can work or can be repressive.

Building physical communities means more than shared space, it means shared
ownership, responsibility and meaningful communication.

In this environment, democracy and justice can be built.

Your thoughts

Justin

On Jun 9, 2009 4:11 PM, "Robin Smith" <robinsmith3 at googlemail.com> wrote:

Dear All,

Thank you for introducing me to the meaning of real democracy last
night, it was entirely rewarding. My parting questions still stand:

"Is democracy without justice worth having ? Are democracy and justice
mutually inclusive activities? Must democracy come before justice ?
What would the people rather have, democracy or justice? Both are
ideal but what is the reality ?". Am I being too deep here???

The term "community" fascinated me too. Is the following text the
language you might have been looking for when describing the term
community ?

"A primitive tribe may not produce much wealth, but all members are
capable of an independent life. Each shares all the knowledge
possessed by the tribe. They know the habits of animals, birds, and
fishes. They can make their own shelter, clothing, and weapons. In
short, they are all capable of supplying their own wants. The
independence of all of the members makes them free contracting parties
in their relations with the community."

If these words inspire you the full chapter and entire book can be found
here:
http://www.henrygeorge.org/pchp23.htm

Isn't it true that we have all belonged to a community possessing
ultimate democracy and justice? Our Family. This community does not
have to create a debt risk to function. It works on trust using pure
credit. No constitution is required. Is greater trust therefore the
key to the re-establishment of a just and functioning democratic
society ?

Looking forward to meeting again soon.

Brgds
Robin.

--
Economics Comment
http://gco2e.blogspot.com/

Work
http://www.systemicfiscalreform.org/

About Me
http://fon.gs/robinsmithme/

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