[Campaignforrealdemocracy] Purpose of list

james holland james at dogmanet.org
Fri May 15 08:03:12 BST 2009


sorry for not getting back sooner dave.

this list is striclty for organising the project, meeting announcements 
/ minutes and discussion DIRECTLY related to them.

it is absolutley not for general discussion, posting of links, and 
replying to multiple lists.





James Holland

http://risingclevel.blogspot.com/

dave wrote:
> No-one's acknowledged or replied to this email yet (sent 2 days ago). 
> Can we clarify this asap?
> 
> ta
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> I hestitated in joining this list but said I'd try it as my 
> understanding is it is to solely discuss local grass roots 
> anti-authoritarian community organising.
> 
> If its going to be about central london policing and other general 
> issues I can get that elsewhere so will take myself off the list. I 
> might come off it anyway after a while (no offence to anyone on it!) as 
> there are other similar lists I'm on.
> 
> If its not clear what the list is for I suggest a sentence or two should 
> be added to the list information link, and everyone be made aware of the 
> exact purpose so we dont get any other stuff on it.
> 
> 
> ta
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> At 06:08 13/05/2009 -0700, Mark Barrett wrote:
>> Agreed, it's not about endorsing any campaigns. I think we should be 
>> talking about our sense that a campaign for real democracy is what's 
>> needed in this time of economic and other crises, and now public 
>> atmosphere of anti-politics  (or, desire for a new politics). And our 
>> belief that what is needed is for local groups and individuals 
>> concerned to make democracy a reality to link up across cities, towns, 
>> villages and country. And to encourage people based in London 
>> interested to do that to get in contact. And for people based on other 
>> places to do the same and contact us to so we can build a movement 
>> capable of both local and joined up regional/national activity.
>>
>> Regarding Monday venue. just got this
>>
>> "Fine to use the room - one holds about 20 and the other is a little 
>> larger.  Jesse can sort this out.  I don't know how you feel about him 
>> also providing vegan food - it's mainly the burger/chix 
>> nuggets/falafel type stuff but he is expanding and will be doing 
>> salads.  He also does a range of vegan pasta dishes.  What do you 
>> think would be the success of charging people, say, £2 a head to cover 
>> the room and a drink/food?  There is a tv in there and the room has 
>> also been soundproofed.
>>
>> Actually, whilst I was in there and talking to Jesse there was a guy 
>> who said that he would be interested in coming to the meetings.  I got 
>> his email address so it may be worth sending him some background info. 
>> [will send you this separately James]
>>
>> Let me know what you think"
>>
>> Obviously though the venue sounds lovely this isn't ideal although 
>> maybe we could use it once or twice for a central London meeting over 
>> the course of next two weeks, before we find a central free space 
>> that's suitable. I'd be ok to cover the cost for people who come and 
>> can't afford 2 pounds. Shall we go for it this coming Monday? Also, I 
>> will ask around as the 21st C Network meeting on Transition Towns this 
>> eve as Francis now has some good venue contacts. Alt is there anyway 
>> of using yr SOAS/CC connections James to get a regular space there? 
>> Brit Museum courtyard cafe  is also a stop gap possibility..
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> 2009/5/13 james holland <james at dogmanet.org <mailto:james at dogmanet.org>>
>>
>>         i'm happy to print something to let people know about it to start 
>>         building up our human resources (i'm already working on some
>>         text), but 
>>         less happy to start endorsing campaigns. this is a strictly
>>         consensus 
>>         process that hasn't met yet so this is the kind of thing it
>>         can't do yet.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         James Holland
>>
>>         http://risingclevel.blogspot.com/
>>
>>         Mark Barrett wrote: 
>>         > Hi James & Everyone 
>>         > 
>>         > Maybe we should draft a small flier for the big 23rd May
>>         United Campaign 
>>         > Aagainst Police Violence demo, to introduce the campaign.
>>         Hopefully we 
>>         > should have a venue for (bi-weekly?) meetings by then, but
>>         even if not 
>>         > we can surely drum up some interest. As most of you will
>>         know, the UCAPV 
>>         > initiative came straight out of the G20 debacle, although it
>>         has roots 
>>         > going a long way back with police abuses of power. 
>>         > 
>>         > Could we make a strong, short statement making clear our
>>         position on the 
>>         > police's role in a democratic society and calling on
>>         campaigners and 
>>         > police alike to join us in our struggle for a very different
>>         society 
>>         > where power is dispersed so people can act honourably and
>>         responsibly - 
>>         > and powerfully together? 
>>         > 
>>         > Unrest is linked to injustices, perceived and real and the
>>         police are 
>>         > being forced to defend a clapped out system - not an easy
>>         position to be 
>>         > in. People and polcie should be able to steward their own
>>         neighbourhoods 
>>         > together so that truth, justice and a keeping of peace are
>>         served and 
>>         > preserved. Likewise - by extension  - the whole of our 
>>         > society. Apparently the mood out there anti-politics, and/or
>>         for 
>>         > a different kind of politics. Surely we can make  some
>>         democratic hay 
>>         > with that on 23rd May? 
>>         > 
>>         > Mark 
>>         > 
>>         > PS Dawn and Panda, any news on the venue? I'll be in central
>>         London this 
>>         > afternoon if you need to direct me to the place you
>>         suggested on Friday, 
>>         > please do! PPS looking forward to Rachel's this Friday! All
>>         welcome.. xx 
>>         > 
>>         > 
>>         > 2009/5/11 A World to Win <info at aworldtowin.net
>>         <mailto:info at aworldtowin.net> 
>>         > <mailto:info at aworldtowin.net <mailto:info at aworldtowin.net>>> 
>>         > 
>>         >     Hi Mark - thought the 2012 listers might want to read
>>         today's blog 
>>         >     from A World to Win. 
>>         >     Cheers, Corinna 
>>         >    
>>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>         >     *Parliament versus the people* 
>>         > 
>>         >     The shoddy and demeaning spectacle of MPs milking their
>>         expenses’ 
>>         >     system at the taxpayers' expense for all it is worth
>>         knows no 
>>         >     bounds. They have been claiming for just about
>>         everything: £60,000 
>>         >     (Employment minister Tony McNulty) for second home
>>         allowances, and 
>>         >     £25,000 for security patrols (Barbara Follett) down to
>>         69p for a 
>>         >     packet of biscuits, £2.50 for eyeliner and even for Kit
>>         Kats and an 
>>         >     Ikea carrier bag. 
>>         > 
>>         >     MPs have blatantly engaged in property speculation,
>>         using allowances 
>>         >     to do up homes before selling them on. “Never in my 20
>>         years in 
>>         >     politics have I seen the public as angry as they are
>>         today and, 
>>         >     frankly, who can blame them? It doesn't help that the
>>         revelations 
>>         >     have come at a time of recession.” Thus the Liberal
>>         Democrat Norman 
>>         >     Baker, MP for Lewes, East Sussex, once home of
>>         revolutionary 
>>         >     democrat Tom Paine. Baker’s remarks are part of a
>>         growing chorus 
>>         >     warning about the yawning credibility gap between the
>>         electorate and 
>>         >     those who purport to represent them in parliament. 
>>         > 
>>         >     And are the Honourable Members, who include 13 members
>>         of Gordon 
>>         >     Brown’s Cabinet, expressing any shame or remorse for
>>         their venal 
>>         >     attitude to office? No, sublimely oblivious to
>>         criticism, they are 
>>         >     complaining that their abuses were exposed to public
>>         scrutiny. The 
>>         >     House of Commons authorities are even asking the police
>>         to track 
>>         >     down the source of the leak that showed how deeply MPs’
>>         snouts are 
>>         >     in the trough. 
>>         > 
>>         >     As the /Observer/ commented yesterday, the distance
>>         between MPs and 
>>         >     ordinary people is now so big that they consider a
>>         £24,000 second 
>>         >     home allowance as an “incidental” perk. For most, that
>>         is a lump sum 
>>         >     they would never dream of seeing in their bank account.
>>         And so, 
>>         >     warnings of the breakdown of trust upon which bourgeois 
>>         >     parliamentary democracy relies are flying thick and fast: 
>>         > 
>>         >         * Baker concludes that auditing, transparency and
>>         limits on 
>>         >           expenses must be imposed – warning that “If we do
>>         not, then 
>>         >           the trust between the people and Parliament will
>>         have been 
>>         >           irrevocably damaged, with all the dangers that
>>         holds.” 
>>         >         * The /Daily Telegraph/, which first blew the
>>         whistle on MPs 
>>         >           expenses, concludes that: "There is no doubt that
>>         the current 
>>         >           system is rotten and cannot survive.” 
>>         >         * The /Daily Mail/ says it means a “terminal
>>         wipe-out” for New 
>>         >           Labour and that Blairism’s claim to moral virtue
>>         has been 
>>         >           “blown to shreds”. The question now, it asks, is
>>         what will be 
>>         >           the consequences of all this. “For with such an
>>         unprecedented 
>>         >           breakdown of Parliamentary integrity and loss of
>>         public trust, 
>>         >           we are surely in uncharted territory.” 
>>         >         * And last, but not least, a /Guardian/ blogger
>>         points out that 
>>         >           the corruption shows “how alienated the political
>>         classes are 
>>         >           from those they serve”, demanding that Oliver
>>         Cromwell come 
>>         >           back with a peoples’ army to shut the whole thing
>>         down. 
>>         > 
>>         >     The haughty obliviousness of New Labour after 12 years
>>         in power is 
>>         >     indeed mind-boggling. Of course the Conservatives, and
>>         indeed Sinn 
>>         >     Fein, have also been playing the system for all that
>>         it’s worth, but 
>>         >     New Labour’s arrogance is far greater than that of the rest 
>>         >     combined. It comes at a time when income inequality in
>>         Britain is at 
>>         >     its widest point in 40 years after 12 years of Labour
>>         government, a 
>>         >     result of low wages and benefits held below inflation. 
>>         > 
>>         >     MPs have justified their greed by pointing to the
>>         difference between 
>>         >     their pay and the vast salaries paid to executives in
>>         the private 
>>         >     sector. In doing so they show that they have nothing in
>>         common with 
>>         >     the people that they are supposed to represent. Instead
>>         they draw 
>>         >     their “morality” from the capitalist economic system which 
>>         >     parliamentary democracy oversees and keeps in place. 
>>         > 
>>         >     The populist right like the /Daily Mail/ is aware that
>>         the limits of 
>>         >     parliamentary democracy have been reached and that they
>>         will be 
>>         >     breached. By its actions, New Labour is opening the
>>         doors to 
>>         >     dictatorial rule. It’s time to sound the alarm bells
>>         loud and clear. 
>>         > 
>>         >     The current scandal shows the urgent need to campaign
>>         for a People’s 
>>         >     Charter for Democracy 
>>         >     <http://www.aworldtowin.net/about/Rights21C.html>. The
>>         aim is not to 
>>         >     “re-build trust” in a corrupt and undemocratic
>>         parliament but to end 
>>         >     the rule of political elites, and create new forms of
>>         direct local 
>>         >     and national democracy through peoples’ assemblies. 
>>         > 
>>         >     Corinna Lotz 
>>         >     A World to Win secretary, 11 May 2009 
>>         > 
>>         > 
>>         > 
>>         > 
>>         > 
>>         > > 
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     -- 
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>>     http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/tobintaxnow/
>>
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