[Campaignforrealdemocracy] CRD update from southwark and lewisham

Fri Oct 23 14:27:39 BST 2009

Hi All

I heard John Denham Secretary of State talk about localism the other day at the RSA and it was completely about the role of local authorities delivering public services.

I asked him what happened to double devolution and why he didn't focus more (at all in fact) on communities as being a local entity in their own right, and something distinct from the local state and services?  He said it was catered for elsewhere in their policy thinking which is true, but why not make the link explicit?  Community does not equate to the council and localism has to be more than just what services you are consulted on. My guess is that the election campaigning starts early and public services are the battleground for our politicians.

The reason why I mention this is because it shows how the rhetoric of localism and devolved democracy all too often gets used to invoke radical change, and then instead becomes about what the council needs to do about services.

I think services are important, as is the local council, but I think we want to see a more than that as a campaign for real democracy and it is really hard to get councils off this narrow vision and engage with a more grassroots concern about democracy not as a means to have a conversation on services, but as something valuable in itself.

My concern with local assemblies is, whilst I think they are useful spaces, they can also be easily taken away, because what is created by a council can also be closed down, but also the service delivery mantra can be overpowering and we need to create our own agendas, not be told that it is all about housing, transport, health, safety, education, environment and here are the indicators we want to achieve etc and here's a few bits of small change to tidy up the local park

Best wishes to all

Matt

Matthew Scott

CSC Director

020 7336 9461

Work mobile: 07827 258411

Website: www.communitysectorcoalition.org.uk

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________________________________
From: Mark Barrett [mailto:marknbarrett at googlemail.com]
Sent: 22 October 2009 17:11
To: James Holland
Cc: Matthew Scott; project2012 at googlegroups.com; campaignforrealdemocracy at lists.aktivix.org
Subject: Re: CRD update from southwark and lewisham

hi james

thanks for this, very useful :-)

i also re-attended my local area forum a few weeks back, and was unsurprised to find it badly chaired as usual, attended my a majority of white skinned retirees, some of whom have some distinctly unsavoury attitudes towards people who beg, or have a different cultural background to name but a couple of examples.

the councils appear to run these things differently from place to place. where i am they don't offer grants, they just tell us what they are planning to do and call it consultation or give us superficial presentations on matters that deserve far deeper discussion than is allowed by the format. everyone can speak, but not too much and certainly don't expect much of a hearing for radical views. if the panel doesn't put you down someone with aforesaid unsavoury attitudes on the floor might.

but, at the same time, there are some really good people there, and every so often there is a glimpse of light..and, after the meeting (which i left early) some people got in touch from housing co-op group and north circular housing and development group http://www.btcag.co.uk/ and green party. and we are meeting this sunday to discuss how to go about democratising the forum so that will be interesting!

below this mail i've set out some info on this and matt scott's take on how easily public bodies (eg local fora) mimick civil society groups without actually being them; ie the co-option we face

also james:
1. agree 100% about the need to take it down further to sub group level
2. about the structural vs campaigning stuff, for now the way i see it we need campaigning and we need policy wonking. some peope like wonking more, others campaigning and some like to do both, but maybe  to different degrees.

a union of localists will need policy to capture the types that understand policy - hopefully also inspiring them to do more by way of acting locally too (not least cos they can see there is an embryonic joining up of sorts around an ideology that goes beyond merely saying lets do it ourselves in the areas we live, but which actually has a vision of how all the very best (and, democratically dreamt up) ideas might join up. but it (policy / structural conversation and commitment) also gives hope to people who need to see a meaningful plan of how the future will actually look. not to mention a set of pre-considered demands to put before the state if it ever comes to that. plus  it helps to sharpen our intellect.

but also we need to campaign in the here and now, of course, building aligned cells in each local area. but i see no reason why that process shouldn't loosely align with an organised programme and a process of democratic debate about how to link the wider questions of political economy with the democratic localist agenda.

anyway, hopefully i'll send another post in the not too distant with a clearer idea of how i see the two strategies complimenting one another

finally, about young people i am working on this ;-)

all the best, and up the revolution!

mark

Hi Mark

Re the point about public bodies mimicking civil society bodies

Basically there is always a tension whereby public bodies, especially the local council, will want to gain kudos as community leaders, and if they can usurp that role from the voluntary and community sector they will do so.  An example of this is the debate and policy around community empowerment in the UK since 2000.  It featured in the Neighbourhood Renewal Strategy 2000, and was implemented by creating CENs - community empowerment networks, (of which I set up the one in Lewisham) - these CENs had to be run by the volunrary sector and money for them came staright from central govt to the vol sector umbrella, by passing the local state, who then lobbied like hell to get them closed down, which by and large has happened because by 2005 central govt was persuaded by them (and the fact that most of their voters are in the public sector) that money for community empowerment should go through the LSPs (local strategic partnerships ie confidence tricks). Of course the council is the lead and accountable body for LSPs, i.e. they hold the money and say what goes, and surprisingly they chose to hold onto the empowerment money and pay their own staff to do community empowerment more often than passing the money on to the voluntary sector.  The 2006 local government act and 2007 Empowerment Action Plan made a point of saying 'community empowerment is the main business of local authorities' but surely their main business is actually service delivery; and if they were to be empowering, assuming that power can ever be given to anyone, as opposed to taken, then they would need an actual mandate, but as you know we are the most centralised state outside of Malta ...  so basically because the state and its fleet of quangos is constantly trying to reinvent itself and update their failures, they seek to steal the clothes of the more credible parts of society - the private sector seemed like a good bet in the 80s but now its all about civil society this and community that etc so stuart etherington head of ncvo says we will see more of this, but hardly seemed to be bothered if his members were further crowded out by wannbe statutory agencies getting down with the community.  In some ways well and good if councils, PCTs etc want to be more credible and informed by local communities but my experience is that it tends to be very superficial, my analogy would be that to give councils an empowerment role in the current climate is like putting a vampire in charge of a bloodbank - by which I mean that the council brand is so toxic and as instituions they are so top down and brutal that it is hardly credible to think they can transform themselves etc etc hope that makes sense - bit of a ramble

Matt
2009/10/19 laura :

Hi Mark
thanks for your emails.  It would be great to meet up to discuss all things mentioned.  Would you both be available this coming Sunday?  Afternoon time?  Failing that we can come up with another date.
Worth discussing:
1. A new format for LAF.  They achieve very little other than a forum for the council keeping us up to date with development but they don't really allow for proper debate and the Chair is so negative that he probably puts most people off speaking.
2. Co-op on A406 and Notting Hill Housing Trust plans
3. Retail along A406.  I'm looking for some ideas.  No-one seems to know what NHHT will do with the retail units.  We need NHHT to invest in them and re-ignite our shopping centre along the A406 rather than let it die away.
4. 21st Network.  I'd like to know more.
I'm copying in a couple of pals, Jack and Peter, to see if they can come along and feed into our ideas meeting.  Peter also has a housing background.
Cheers
Laura

Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:06:01 +0100
Subject: Re: Important - A406 Bounds Green Upcoming Works
From: marknbarrett at googlemail.com<mailto:marknbarrett at googlemail.com>

Well done on this Laura! Will forward the info around.

Laura did you get the mail I sent you and Nigel in response to yours? It woud be great meet up to discuss a way forward for bringing local groups together more effectively, tech and 'the times' are on our side, plus I have soe interesting things - in terms of connections with schools, the 21st century network and other ideas -  up my sleeve. Together, we can do quite a lot. Funnily enough, completely by chance I ran into another dissatisfied Southgate LAF attender in Enfield on Saturday. Aside from a general meeting, about LAF would you be interested to co-convene with me a small operational group for real democracy; as a starting point to work out and put forward a more inclusive alternative to the current LAF format?

I work at a school but next week is half term and will have some time free before I nip away to Cornwall on Wed 28th. Could we meet before then?

Well done again for all the great work you do

Mark

2009/10/19 laura davenport <lauradav1 at msn.com<mailto:lauradav1 at msn.com>>

Hi, I have received the following email from VolkerFitzpatrick who hope to win the job of road widening along A406.  I have spoken with them and they are very keen to (a) win the job and (b) work with local community groups.  Surely a first !
The road scheme as passed 2007 will go ahead. It will include the widening of Telford Road only, a 7 lane junction at Telford/Bowes Road, a cycle path along the route, pulling down of Powys Court to create a new left hand turn and a number of pedestrian crossings, including one at Brownlow/A406 junction.
Please take some time to think about the road being constructed and how you use the area.  What problems to you foresee?  Please talk with friends and neighbours about this and get back to me by this Friday, 23rd October and I will collate and send forward all our points.
I have briefly mentioned to them:
1. Raise concerns regarding the Ritz Parade and how shops will continue to function whilst they build in front of them.
2. Confirmed that the old bridge outside Bowes School will only be taken down once the new bridge is built.
3. Problems people will have getting across roads whilst road works take place.  I remember the Head of Broomfield bringing this problem up at a public meeting.
See email below and do get back to me.  It may be that if they win the job that we set up a small working group to co-ordinate the work they do and what the local community needs.
Best wishes
Laura Davenport
BTCAT

Good Morning BTCAG

I am currently working on a tender submission for Transport for London for the planned works to the A406 North circular through the bounds green area. I have come across your website and read through the information contained therein, in an attempt to find out if there are any special requirements during the works that the local communities would wish to see us employ. VolkerFitzpatrick as a company are committed to corporate social responsibility, and are keen to get involved with any local initiatives for improving sustainability or any environmental schemes in addition to planned works, that may need help if we are awarded the works.

I wonder if you would let me know if there were any such initiatives that you know of.

I look forward to your response.

Kind Regards,
Andrew Gilfrin
Sub Agent
Mobile: 07774 008089
www.VolkerWessels.co.uk<http://www.volkerwessels.co.uk/>
www.VolkerFitzpatrick.co.uk<http://www.volkerfitzpatrick.co.uk/>
2009/10/21 James Holland <james at dogmanet.org<mailto:james at dogmanet.org>>
since my last update i've attended a few local forum/assembly events, a few other things and been doing some thinking.

these existing structures are actually surprisingly fruitful but the there a few things they need to start on the journey towards democracy

1) more people involved (especially young people)
2) more regular meetings including sub groups on different issues
3) ability to discuss 'big issues' that they may not currently have much influence over (but that which they might find a way to influence)
4) geographical sub areas - council wards are still WAY bigger than a community - Telegraph hill is a classic example, the honour oak estate end is so different / distant from the leafy telegraph hill proper part.
5) they are almost totally focussed on giving money to discrete projects that ask for it, the ones i've been to are more like board meetings of a grant making trust, listening to pitches from charities for project funding.  i think it's key that they start to decide to DO things themselves, possibly using their budgets to do them. but even better do things that don't need any money at all 'we will spend next saturday clearing a patch of waste ground' 'each of us will knock on the door of someone locally who we know can't get out of the house and ask if we can help them' etc

also, on personal level, creating real democracy can't just be about building intellectually satisfying democratic structures - it has to be about getting your hands dirty in the community, getting to know people and making a contribution, and in fact its a community spirit that is more important than the exact detail of the structures that govern it.

-

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 11:35 AM, James Holland <james at dogmanet.org<mailto:james at dogmanet.org>> wrote:

I think my strategy is to push the current set ups, untill they either start to breakthrough and work well or the council put the brakes on (the most likely result!) - either way you've got a platform to go further.

i've been to one TT brockley meeting, and i will continue to be involved i think.

hopefully i'll have chance to meet up with you, either at a meeting or outside, at the moment i'm still in the research phase - trying to work out whats going on.. however i'm quite enthusiastic about the nunhead area becoming something of 'beacon' (as it's already going quite well) at the same time as trying to stir something in a few other areas (particularly new cross / telegraph hill)

my phone number is 07905 685 906 please let mek now if there's any events or peole you think i should particulalry know about

james holland
On Oct 12, 2009 7:00 PM, "Matthew Scott" <Matt at communitysectorcoalition.org.uk<mailto:Matt at communitysectorcoalition.org.uk>> wrote:
Hi James

I live in Brockley SE4; I have avoided my local assembly to date, only because I have had extensive interaction with the council at the local strategic partnership level and neighbourhood management level - however I know many of the lead officers from my days when I was a community development worker working across Lewisham for a community led network (i.e. not working for the council).  I agree to an extent that they can be influenced, but there's a lot of paranoia about rival mainstream political parties - tories, lib dems etc doing just that so the idea that community activists can get in there probably needs to be tempered.  I like the transition town thing because it is more genuinely local people led - from my perspective anything that is council led is going to end in disappointment at some point so the ideal is to bypass them where possible and make demands from a position of strength and equality.  Real democracy can never (ever) be council mediated, managed democracy.  I have many contacts in both Lewisham and Southwark so happy to link up if there is any stuff needs doing

  Matt     Matthew Scott   CSC Director   020 7336 9461   Work mobile: 07827 258411   ...

________________________________
From: martyn2345 at googlemail.com<mailto:martyn2345 at googlemail.com> [mailto:martyn2345 at googlemail.com<mailto:martyn2345 at googlemail.com>] On Behalf Of James Holland
Sent: 12 October 2009 13:30
To: Matthew Scott
Cc: campaignforrealdemocracy at lists.aktivix.org<mailto:campaignforrealdemocracy at lists.aktivix.org>; project2012 at googlegroups.com<mailto:project2012 at googlegroups.com>; Mark Barrett

Subject: Re: [Campaignforrealdemocracy] campaign real democracy - actually starting to campaign!

  yes, thanks for that the forums are different in different places  - in lewisham they're calle...

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James Holland

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James Holland

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"We hear men speaking for us of new laws strong and sweet /Yet is there no man speaketh as we speak in the street."

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