[Campaignforrealdemocracy] Fwd: The alternative to cuts etc / the future of new cross

Wed Feb 23 22:33:06 UTC 2011

Hi All

Just to say liking what James is doing in LewiSHAM / New X - the bringing of people together is crucial; reminds of Paulo Freire  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulo_Freire and the belief that we change the world one conversation at a time, by breaking a culture of silence thru praxis.  What I want to see re real democracy is a joining up of political radicals on the one hand, with community groups on the other, community groups as in small, usually unfunded non charities as opposed to more corporate entities; and what I see James doing is building at that level; hence the April 11th event etc; so the debate about higher end stuff about economics, war etc is all necessary but the immediate debate in a drafty hall, like NX Gate All Saints, with a load of residents would start, my guess would be, with a lot of open conversation and listening otherwise what's new: as I saw it the democracy cells was all about this :)

all best

matt

________________________________
From: campaignforrealdemocracy-bounces at lists.aktivix.org [campaignforrealdemocracy-bounces at lists.aktivix.org] On Behalf Of Robin Smith [robinsmith3 at gmail.com]
Sent: 23 February 2011 17:55
To: Mark Barrett
Cc: campaignforrealdemocracy at lists.aktivix.org
Subject: Re: [Campaignforrealdemocracy] Fwd: The alternative to cuts etc / the future of new cross

Mark

Yes several times. They were very polite but said there were bigger problems!!! (that were relatively very small)

BTW I am not campaigning on a single issue remedy like LVT. I am campaigning on identifying the root cause of poverty, corruption, vice, recession, destruction, war. Because once the mass of people see it there will be a revolution overnight. Then they will decide what the remedy is.

Fuck the campaigners. I have found them to be the most ignorant and selfish class of all. If this offends please give me time to show you the proof before flaming me?

I realise this is not easy to understand for many. Please help me find a way to get the point across to you. I have tried so many times and in so many ways.

Cheers

On 23 February 2011 09:21, Mark Barrett <marknbarrett at googlemail.com<mailto:marknbarrett at googlemail.com>> wrote:
Robin did you make contact with UK Uncut yet about tax avoidance via
privatised land rents ?  Did they express any interested in
campiagning against big land owners to highlight your point? The only
way to build a campaign around this as a single issue as far as I can
see would be to set up a direct action group in their mould - or work
with them if they are interested.

Does anyone else on this list have anything  to add to this debate at
this point ? If not probably we should take the conversation off -list
so that people don't feel they are being subjected to a private
conversation and its a bit off the topic for which it was set up

Mark

On 23 February 2011 09:07, Robin Smith <robinsmith3 at gmail.com<mailto:robinsmith3 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Ah yes, the theory that says the weak overwhelm the powerful right?
>
> Can you see that even most campaigners want to collect rents themselves
> privately. Any that dont do it yet aspire to it. That is whu we do mot want
> to discusd it. We are guilty ourselves.
>
> I see sentimentally naive campaigns as the biggest spammers. They are
> selfishly avoiding that.
>
> So if the force blocking change is so much more powerful than the weakness
> wanting it, what do you think will happen. We wil have to wait until people
> are statving first. Is that what you want?
>
> Strayegy
>
> 1 point out ths great wrong and be certain about it not timid
>
> 2 focus a mass if resistance nit on that thing but on a proximate cause to
> get people thinking for the first time about wrongness
>
> 3 when the we are thinking and debating, focus that new power on the great
> wrong
>
> This is not about a dumb silver bullet. Its about being smart and admitting
> we are all complicit
>
> Cheers x
>
> On 23 Feb 2011 08:32, "Mark Barrett" <marknbarrett at googlemail.com<mailto:marknbarrett at googlemail.com>> wrote:
>> Whether or not that is a / the solution there are a lot of other,
>> important steps we need to take 1st
>> Intermittently spamming lots of lists with this silver bullet theory
>> does not really help to build a movement for change
>> First people need to seize power, THEN you'll need to persuade them
>> through democratic processes that this is the way forward - there is
>> no short-cut to your dream's manifestation
>> This is why James and others are focused on the means with which
>> people can actively take power together - or at least do away with
>> those whjo have power over them in POLITICAL-ECONOMIC terms not merely
>> economic as your theory goes. I think they are right
>>
>> X
>>
>> On 23 February 2011 08:05, Robin Smith <robinsmith3 at gmail.com<mailto:robinsmith3 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> Abolish ALL taxes
>>> Collect ALL land rents for revenue
>>>
>>> Its that simple. Why make it complex.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> On 22 Feb 2011 22:48, "James Holland" <james at dogmanet.org<mailto:james at dogmanet.org>> wrote:
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>> From: James Holland <james at dogmanet.org<mailto:james at dogmanet.org>>
>>>> Date: Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 10:02 AM
>>>> Subject: The alternative to cuts etc / the future of new cross
>>>> To: people-before-private-profit at googlegroups.com<mailto:people-before-private-profit at googlegroups.com>, Laca Lists <
>>>> laca at lists.aktivix.org<mailto:laca at lists.aktivix.org>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You know that we're often asked "what's your alternative" at the moment
>>>> its
>>>> pretty much 'tax the bankers' which is a good start, but I've been
>>>> wanting
>>>> to add something to it about getting people to come together to discuss,
>>>> and
>>>> decide things for themselves, and the great thing is that we can
>>>> actually
>>>> make this one happen.
>>>>
>>>> It was originally an idea to conduct a 'real consultation' but it's
>>>> developed into much more than that - the process of discussing
>>>> alternatives
>>>> directly with each other and then putting them into practice ourselves
>>>> seems
>>>> to me to be a pretty good starting point for improving democracy, as
>>>> well
>>>> as
>>>> probably coming up with a better plan than that currently being
>>>> employed.
>>>>
>>>> The process begins now with publicity and discussions on the blog before
>>>> a
>>>> series of public meetings starting on April 11th at All Saints community
>>>> centre.
>>>>
>>>> I hope you might want to mention it as an example of a positive
>>>> alternative
>>>> in publicity materials and interviews etc and also get involved in you
>>>> live
>>>> in se14 (or nearby) or think about starting something similar in your
>>>> area.
>>>>
>>>> http://thefutureofnewcross.wordpress.com
>>>>
>>>> http://www.facebook.com/#!/home.php?sk=group_198418413518013
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Campaignforrealdemocracy mailing list
>>> Campaignforrealdemocracy at lists.aktivix.org<mailto:Campaignforrealdemocracy at lists.aktivix.org>
>>> https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/campaignforrealdemocracy
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "I am going to ask you something. Why are you being educated? Do you
>> understand my question? Your parents send you to school. You attend
>> classes, you learn mathematics, you learn geography, you learn
>> history. Why? Have you ever asked why you want to be educated, what is
>> the point of being educated? What is the point of your passing
>> examinations and getting degrees? Is it to get married, get a job and
>> settle down in life as millions and millions of people do? Is that
>> what you are going to do, is that the meaning of education? Do you
>> understand what I am talking about? This is really a very serious
>> question. The whole world is questioning the basis of education. We
>> see what education has been used for. Human beings throughout the
>> world - whether in Russia or in China or in America or in Europe or in
>> this country - are being educated to conform, to fit into society and
>> into their culture, to fit into the stream of social and economic
>> activity, to be sucked into that vast stream that has been flowing for
>> thousands of years. Is that education, or is education something
>> entirely different? Can education see to it that the human mind is not
>> drawn into that vast stream and so destroyed; see that the mind is
>> never sucked into that stream; so that, with such a mind, you can be
>> an entirely different human being with a different quality to life?
>> Are you going to be educated that way? Or are you going to allow your
>> parents, society, to dictate to you so that you become pad of the
>> stream of society? Real education means that a human mind, your mind,
>> not only is capable of being excellent in mathematics, geography and
>> history, but also can never, under any circumstances, be drawn into
>> the stream of society. Because that stream which we call living, is
>> very corrupt, is immoral, is violent, is greedy. That stream is our
>> culture. So, the question is how to bring about the right kind of
>> education so that the mind can withstand all temptations, all
>> influences, the bestiality of this civilization and this culture. We
>> have come to a point in history where we have to create a new culture,
>> a totally different kind of existence, not based on consumerism and
>> industrialization."
>> J. Krishnamurti
>>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_525001&v=eX4toR2cogA&feature=iv#t=2m6s
>>
>> "We hear men speaking for us of new laws strong and sweet /Yet is
>> there no man speaketh as we speak in the street.”
>

--
"I am going to ask you something. Why are you being educated? Do you
understand my question? Your parents send you to school. You attend
classes, you learn mathematics, you learn geography, you learn
history. Why? Have you ever asked why you want to be educated, what is
the point of being educated? What is the point of your passing
examinations and getting degrees? Is it to get married, get a job and
settle down in life as millions and millions of people do? Is that
what you are going to do, is that the meaning of education? Do you
understand what I am talking about? This is really a very serious
question. The whole world is questioning the basis of education. We
see what education has been used for. Human beings throughout the
world - whether in Russia or in China or in America or in Europe or in
this country - are being educated to conform, to fit into society and
into their culture, to fit into the stream of social and economic
activity, to be sucked into that vast stream that has been flowing for
thousands of years. Is that education, or is education something
entirely different? Can education see to it that the human mind is not
drawn into that vast stream and so destroyed; see that the mind is
never sucked into that stream; so that, with such a mind, you can be
an entirely different human being with a different quality to life?
Are you going to be educated that way? Or are you going to allow your
parents, society, to dictate to you so that you become pad of the
stream of society? Real education means that a human mind, your mind,
not only is capable of being excellent in mathematics, geography and
history, but also can never, under any circumstances, be drawn into
the stream of society. Because that stream which we call living, is
very corrupt, is immoral, is violent, is greedy. That stream is our
culture. So, the question is how to bring about the right kind of
education so that the mind can withstand all temptations, all
influences, the bestiality of this civilization and this culture. We
have come to a point in history where we have to create a new culture,
a totally different kind of existence, not based on consumerism and
industrialization."
J. Krishnamurti

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_525001&v=eX4toR2cogA&feature=iv#t=2m6s

"We hear men speaking for us of new laws strong and sweet /Yet is
there no man speaketh as we speak in the street.”

--
Real Reform
- Politics for the 21st Century
- http://gco2e.blogspot.com/

The SFR Group
- Good news! Abolishing Taxes. Collecting Rents
- http://www.systemicfiscalreform.org/

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