[g8-sheffield] Re: g8-sheffield Digest, Vol 5, Issue 19

[IAN WALLACE]

Thanks very much for your excellent thoughts on conspiracy theories Jase. Well done! No doubt somebody will respond to say how wrong you are but your posting was a breath of fresh air.
Ian

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: London bombing is also a conspiracy (Kathleen Holliday)
2. UK Indymedia - It was meant to be a carnival.....
(imc-uk-tech at lists.indymedia.org)
3. UK Indymedia - Demonstration at Gleneagles today
(imc-uk-tech at lists.indymedia.org)
4. Re: London bombing is also a conspiracy (Jase)


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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 18:18:53 +0100
From: "Kathleen Holliday" 
Subject: Re: [g8-sheffield] London bombing is also a conspiracy
To: 
Message-ID: <006a01c58bbc$c59de8e0$9800a8c0 at florence>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Also, the media said over and over that there was NO evidence to suggest
suicide bombers at the time.


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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 20:13:03 +0100
From: imc-uk-tech at lists.indymedia.org
Subject: [g8-sheffield] UK Indymedia - It was meant to be a
carnival.....
To: g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

indymedia.org.uk Email Forward
------------------------------------------------------------ 

It was meant to be a carnival.....

angelwings, 04.07.2005 20:30

but it turned into a riot. Or so you'd think, from the police tactics at the carnival for Full Enjoyment, here in Edinburgh today.

Billed as a carnivalesque parade through Edinburgh, calling for No Wage Slavery, No Benefits Slavery. No Debt Slavery, we were meant to visit 'places responsible for the increasingly precarious way in which we experience life and work'. Instead, we were subjected Police Repression like like I've never seen before.
Maybe because the words 'anarchist rally' were banded around, or maybe because they are practising for Wednesday - the start of G8 - for whatever reason, today we have had a taste of Police State and I found it very frightening.
We had a little appetisers in Sheffield when we hosted the Home Affairs G8 - we made them very welcome - today the police had total control of the streets, cordoning off whole areas , moving in at the drop of a hat , moving us away, holding us penned in , threatening us with riot gear, shields, helmets, horses and their flerescaent chorus-line (see later).
They were a well-oiled machine, able to hear a fart from streets away and respond in seconds. Most had ear pices, obeying orders, grouping and regrouping , moving forward, cleaning us on and on.
Why do anarchists cross the road? To get to the other side, silly. Early on in the day, 30 women and men crossed the road at Scotts Monument, the police tried to stop them. In a higgley-piggle game of tag, the police played lollypop-lady, chasing and grabbing people as they passed.
They seemed scared at first: 'Keep up, Andy,' a cop shouted to another. Later, the language of police repression - new to me- revealed their training and preparation: ' Keep that dressing right , lads, keep that gap ' they shouted as they marched forward together. But the most incredible police line was when they boxed us in at Channing Street. They stood very close and laced together like leaves or petals, a flurescent chorus line. It was theatrical and almost poetic. They must have some kind of drama coach on how to fix their face for that line up: stern , hard, non-human. I was tempted to ask 'what is your motivation?'
They boxed us in at Exchange Tower, a fairy samba drummed til their arms dropped off. After an hour, there was a scuffle as cops moved in to pull off balaclavas , and wearers retaliated.
A woman was smashed in the back and carried away dazed. Someone was sick, and a man in black danced on a nearby roof, unzipped his flys, pretended to piss, showed us his bum, all overlooked by Exchange Tower workers.
I thought of Twin Towers- an incredible image, banks of glass columns of besuited office workers leaning out , trying to see what was going on. The anarchist danced and waved a black flag from his rooftop perch. They wore identy labels and tags: the anarchist took off his socks sniffed them and chucked them into the cheering crowd below - collective freedom alongside corporate individulisation.
They let us out one by one, searched bags, lined us up , we talked to their video camera, giving name address and date of birth. I decided not to lie but gave my information with as much defiance as I could muster.
We walked back through line after line of police, vans, riot cops in full helmet gear, etc, etc. All for a carnival. Even SMP, Colin Fox, who had tried to come to our rescue, was able to do little.
Back on Princes Street, overlooked by Edinburgh catle, more riot police, more box ins . About 500 this time, in the park, most nothing to do with G8 protests - lots of parents with children- held for hours with no food or water just because the police wanted to clear the street.
Lasting images - riot cops ramming their riot shields forming Roman legion defences - threatening three teenage girls dressed in pink tee shirts and pony tales, giggling into their mobile phone. And the convoy of 50 police white vans speeding down Princess Street - responding to, god knows what, but they had to earn their overtime. 






Source of this emailed article:
http://publish.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/07/316124.html



Attached comment from angelwings:
Hi - These are two pieces I wrote from Edinburgh and posted on to Sheffield Indymedia.
Love alice
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 20:15:01 +0100
From: imc-uk-tech at lists.indymedia.org
Subject: [g8-sheffield] UK Indymedia - Demonstration at Gleneagles
today
To: g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

indymedia.org.uk Email Forward
------------------------------------------------------------ 

Demonstration at Gleneagles today

angelwings, 06.07.2005 22:28

The cops tried many tactics to stop us getting there, but in the end more than 5,000 demonstrated as close as we could to the permineter fence around the Gleneagles Hotel and the Hated Eight.

Actions in Edinburgh started early when activists attempted to blockade the Sheradon Hotel at 6am, where Japanese G8 delegates were staying.
Later, at 9.30am, several coaches were delayed in Edinburgh by police. We were told that the protest march in Gleneagles had been cancelled. 
The reason - violence in the centre of Scotland, the march now constituted a public safety risk. We were given the option to get off the bus and go home. 
After another hour and a sit down protest in the road by activists on another bus , we finally got going. 
Police tactics were to delay us, it seemed, to diminish the power of the protest by having us arrive in dribs and drabs. Or not at all.
En route, we heard of a 2 hour successful blockade of the Edinburgh- Gleneagels Road; of people prevented from leaving Stirling rural convergence camp, then setting off to walk to Gleneagles (poor sods), and of frustration of those left behind in Edinburgh, denied access to coaches, despite having tickets.
We arrived in Auchterarder, the village closest to Gleneagles, 4 hours later, having taken detours due to roads closed or blockaded (we hoped).
A surreal inflated barage balloon hovered above Gleneagals golf course and marked the spot. Here they are,the Big Boys, come and get them - it seemed to say. Actually, it was a sneaky heat seeking device.
Most of the windows of houses and shops in Auchterarder had Make Poverty History stickers and locals smiled and waved. It was a relief.
We seemed like invading armies, us and the police , into their quiet community. But elderly ladies on posh patios raised a glass to us, and children giggled at the Clown Army, who kept us entertained.
Sugar and Spice, the famous cake shop was selling G8 Pie, made of mince 'because they talk it' and Dumplings 'because they are'. We bought some.
The Gleneagals Hotel was surrounded by a 5 mile perimiter fence. We could not see the hotel and were kept away from the fence except at one point, when the march turned a corner on a narrow rural road and we had to progress slowly in two and threes. The police were mob-handed. 
Tensions grew - some protesters breached the fence at this point, and threw it at police who instantly responded, calling up more riot cops and swinging out with their coshes.
Organisers urged us on through the bottle neck:'This is a peaceful demonstration, come on, keep moving, the eyes of the world are on us, you're doing great'. I felt like I were giving birth.
Protestors dashed out on to the field and tried to reach the fence on the other side , but were forced back by cops on horse back and riot cops. 
Over head, Chinook helicptors whirred , flew close, and landed, dicharging cop reinforcements like ugly grey insects.
We walked on, flanked by masked riot cops. 








Source of this emailed article:
http://publish.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/07/316896.html



Attached comment from angelwings:
Number two. 
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 03:07:52 +0100
From: "Jase" 
Subject: Re: [g8-sheffield] London bombing is also a conspiracy
To: 
Message-ID: <000b01c58c06$af598860$a5917ed4 at z>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

There are many conspiracy theories knocking about on this one, as there are
for the 9/11 attacks, however my question would simply be. There are four men
who are now dead, four men who unannounced went to London, who were seen
together and yet whose belongings have turned up at four seperate locations.
Are the families of these men in on the conspiracy? Are hundreds of police,
rescue services, forensic teams, security services and so on?

There is precedent of course. The bombing of Russian apartment blocks, blamed
at the time on Chechen terrorists, is now widely believed to be the work of
the KGB. KGB agents were discovered at another apartment block at the same
time, in the process of setting another bomb. To justify the Chechen conflict,
in order to maintain control in the face of increasing opposition to the war,
many many murders were committed. Yet despite Russia being a state more
secretive and oppressive than ours the truth is slipping out.

Blair does not need to justify the actions in Iraq, it's not as if he is
fighting for the Empire or that the British public is baying for withdrawal.
The main reason for pullout is economic, it's costing too much to remain.
There is the hope that a timetabled withdrawal and full handover of power
would announce Iraqi independance and bring the insurgent attacks not related
to the Iraqi resistance proper (i.e. the suicide bombings) to a halt. But
sadly I fear Iraq has become a batteground. A withdrawal may just leave a
bloodied mess, opened to corporate greed, armed gangs, regional infighting,
the gradual collapse of Iraqi state and identity.

Bush says "Foreign fighters are travelling into Iraq to make it a front line
in the war on terror. And I would rather defeat them there than face them in
our own country". A rare moment of truth which shows his disgusting prejudice
for the lives of non-Americans. Iraqis have no wish to be a 'front line'.
Then again there are mutterings in the Arab world over the indiscriminate
deaths caused by the bombers and maybe this pressure will bring about a halt.
However the source and motivation of the worst atrocities is not clear. Also,
Iraq is becoming increasingly unnappealing as an economic fillet, the west may
want to get out and just leave the door ajar for the oil to flow through. A
full withdrawal may draw much of the sting which drives young men into the
arms of criminals and fanatics, both in Iraq and the UK, however wounds of all
kinds take time to heal.

I read through the list of the dead from the London bombing today, each one of
those deaths is a tremendous loss, a sad waste of life. When the deaths are
far away, when soldiers or politicians can dismiss them as foreign or
subversive or so on, then murder is easy. The 200 000 deaths in Iraq should
not be forgotten, the stupid willfull bloody actions of Bush, Blair and those
who let the invasion of Iraq happen should not be forgotten. Each single death
causes the same trauma, the same grief, as each single death in the London
bombing. Over the last week Iraq has lost twice the number of people to
suicide bombings as London, and for them it is now a regular event. This is
our gift to them.

The spreading of hate, the cancer which eats at our human soul, needs to be
stopped. The division of people in Iraq into Kurd, Shia and Sunni. Labels worn
which divide brother from brother. The division of people in Britain into
those who fit the stereotype, the 'look' of a muslim or south asian or
terrorist. The poisoning of future generations with prejudice, after
Palestine, after Iraq, after 9/11, after Iraq, after Bali, Madrid and now
London. Each time forcing sides to be taken according to religion and
physicality rather than the mind which lives within those borders. Ignorance
feeding upon ignorance, division feeding upon division, the loss of identity
with the society which would be a cradle, the finding of identity with
extremism of whatever form.

Terrorists are those few who try to impose their will by violence on a mass of
people. They are Saddam Hussain, George Bush, Osama Bin Laden, Tony Blair,
Vladamir Putin et al. Wrapped up in nationalistic pride, pre-judging the worth
of thousands of lives, thinking their knowledge greater, thinking their
beliefs the most just. To fight terrorism we must target the few. Anything
else shows the same prejudice, the same forcing of sides upon people, the
painting of prejudice in broad strokes. "If you are a Shiite then your death
is just", "if you are an American then your death is just", "if you are a
Muslim then your death is just", "if you are British then your death is just",
but who is just Shiite or just American or just Muslim or just British? People
have names, lives, loves beyond any word or label.

In our democracy we have the absolute responsibilility to reject violence, to
not assume that our way of dividing the world is the right way, to not claim
any right to expend lives other than our own. It is not a perfect system but
it is built upon a steady line of resting power from terrorists, from kings to
barons to the ruling class to the state. To go further we must confront, to
publicise, to make clear injustice. To reject the comfort of the minority and
push for all to have a voice. In one sense it is within touching distance, yet
each step opens up a landscape of possiblity stretching to a far horizon.


O.k., think I was overdue for a rant, apologies. And now I'll just post my
comments on the conspiracy theory...

From: "Kathleen Holliday" 
> Also, the media said over and over that there was NO evidence to suggest
> suicide bombers at the time.

The reason it was thought not to be suicide bombers was the timing of the
bombs, virtually simultaneous explosions on the tube trains. Now it is thought
the bombs must have been set off by hand. After any event the media story is
based on guesswork, often quite lazy guesswork. On 9/11 it was extrodinary how
one news programme would be guessing on matters stated as fact hours previous
on another channel.

The email which kicked this off is really doing the rounds, widely publicised
by Alex Jones. To be fair the right wing media does this stuff all the time
(see Al Franken's excellent book "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them" to
see how) but this rumour mill thing gets to me as it tends to go unanswered.
For me conspiracy theories start with prejudice, that a small group of people
somehow controls everything. I'll agree that a pretty small group of people do
control a great deal, but to think that no-one else ever does anything bad is
either naiive or narrow minded.

Here are some questions:
Do you really believe for a second that guys with 8 month babies and guys who
taught disabled schoolchildren would want to blow themselves up and kill other
innocent people and leave their passports so their families could get in
trouble?

The bombers could have been kind, generous, caring souls. However they had a
belief that something needed to change and they believed they knew how to do
it. What gets me is the way people find suicide bombing to be somehow more
reprehensible than killing where a person does not sacrifice their own life.
They passionately believed what they were doing was right. "Greater love hath
no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends". They laid
down their lives for what they believed in. A noble idea if it weren't so
stupidly misguided. If four men arrived at the gates of downing street and
vowed to starve to death unless justice was done, that would have been true
sacrifice, but it wouldn't have had as much impact and when you are a true
believer you think that no impact is big enough.

Many British newspapers reported on anti terror drills weeks and months before
the bombings, but none of them picked up on the biggest story of them all, a
drill on the day, the same places at the exact same time of the attack. Why?

Because the fear of a terror attack was and is widespread. The BBC ran a
similar scenario weeks before. Not that I can see what relevance such
exercises have to the bombing whatever, unless it provided inspiration.

1. Why would suicide bombers carry personal documents?

Why not? The bombing was a statement, something that could have been done with
pride and belief.

2. How is it that paper documents can survive bomb blasts that rip apart steel
and people?

Paper can be blown around, like snow, without disintigrating. After 9/11
sheets of paper showered from the towers. Steel and people can also blow
around like snow but that destroys what they are.

3. The super steel ids stayed at the exact same place near the "suicide
bombers"?

The bomb sites were carefully searched over a wide area, not a pleasant job by
all accounts.

4. If you were going to use four bombs in four locations, blowing yourself
up in the process, why would you leave extra bombs in your hire car for the
police to find?

These weren't professional bombers, these were people who were doing this for
the first and last time. Also, explosives were found, no indication of 'extra
bombs'.

5. HOW DID THESE NICE YOUNG LADS GET THEIR HANDS ON MILITARY GRADE HIGH
EXPLOSIVES AND IF THEIR HOUSES WERE FULL OF THEM, ENOUGH TO WARRANT THE
EVACUATION OF 600 PEOPLE FROM THE AREA THEN WOULDNT THEIR FAMILIES HAVE
NOTICED?

They apparently got hold of the explosives from this guy
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Possible_%27mastermind%27_of_London_bombings_captu
red_in_Egypt

Their houses weren't full of explosive. People were evacuated as a precaution
but afaik explosives were only found at one house. And no, I doubt the
families would have noticed a carrier bag stuffed round the back of whatever.
Having said that there is no indication as to the amounts of explosives found.

7. Why did not the bus cameras work?


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