[g8-sheffield] 5. RE: Re: the right of unlawful protest (John Smith)

[adriana]

> 5. RE: Re: the right of unlawful protest (John Smith)


Dear John Smith,

The fact that our fact sources are different doesn't mean mine are false.
A press release distributed through an intranet is not an open refusal
or rejection of the "oppressive restrictions". We would have appreciated
her presence (Lucinda Wakefield, chair of Sheffield Stop the War
Coalition) on June 1st at the City council meeting. As far as I know
members of your
group were there to second sheffield dissent and Jillian.

Or were there? If so, well done.

About my asking for the chats with the coppers to be made public:

>> This is ridiculous. There were no 'secret negotiations', nor would
>>  myself or Jillian have participated in any such thing as secret 
>> negotiations. In fact, there were no negotiations at all. We 
>> *tried* to negotiate a route for a demonstration (as assigned to do
>>  by a G8 planning meeting at New Roots in Spital Hill, I don't know
>>  if Adriana was there or not); the cops said they were waiting for
>>  decisions to be made by their superiors; the decision came; it was
>>  no. We reported all this to this list.


Dear John Smith, let's not put oppressive restrictions on ourselves.
Firstly, no bad faith here on my part,  no
commission from any third parties, but ... *obviously* there have been
negotiations,
or chats, or meetings with the police chiefs constantly, for years in
Sheffield, at
least since war and anti-war protests started. Some actions have been
declared "legal" and many more not, and in this issue STWC must be
experts: since only your actions are authorized, you get a nice rubber
stamp.
SO much so, that we have even been described which actions may be
regarded as "violent" and which are not (and therefore, only the
"peaceful legitimate" ones are
used at yearly gatherings say for instance Peace in the Park which are
supposed to be "radical". Now, let's
stop discrediting each other, my intention was "only" to start a process
of self-criticism for the anti-g8 campaigns, to learn from its entire
process, not to divide, but to point at already existing breaches. To
analyze and decide how it could have worked better.

OK: this is over as far as i'm concerned, let's talk in person some time.

Adriana


> To: "'adriana'" <hjdsmdr at mixmail.com> Cc: "'List for organising 
> protests at the G8 meeting in Sheffield.'" 
> <g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org> Message-ID: 
> <200506252339.j5PNdHWA013539 at springnight.burngreave.net> 
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="windows-1250"
> 
> Dear Adriana
> 
> I want to deal with those statements in your message which relate to
>  facts, rather than opinions. As for the latter, you invite me to 
> continue the conversation on the Matilda list. Well, maybe we could,
>  I would be interested... but I'd like to see if first of all whether
>  we can agree on matters of fact. Because on two points, your facts 
> are false.
> 
> 
> I said:
> 
>>> [the] (Stop the war coalition) publically denounced the 
>>> oppressive
> 
> restrictions placed on their legal protests, and acquiesced to these 
> restrictions under protest. What they did was no different to what 
> the G8 group decided to do, when a meeting unanimously assigned 
> myself and Jillian Creasey to try to negotiate with the police a 
> route for a legal demonstration on the first day of the criminals' 
> visit.
> 
> You said: "No, they didn't, as far as i know only the Green party and
>  this anti-G8 group denounced the "oppressive restrictions"."
> 
> Well, here is the Stop the War Coalition's 15 June press release:
> 
> "---------------------------------------------------------------- 
> SHEFFIELD STOP THE WAR COALITION 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------- 
> Lucinda Wakefield, chair of Sheffield Stop the War Coalition has 
> today told police that the coalition is calling on all restrictions 
> on tonight's protest to be lifted.
> 
> The Coalition has said that the restrictions currently in place 
> breach their democratic right to protest. But also that the 
> restrictions will cause a great deal of unnecessary confusion this 
> evening for people wanting to join the protest.
> 
> In discussion with Chief Inspector, Andy Ellison, she pointed out 
> that on Saturday over 1000 people joined the Coalition's peaceful 
> march and that today people wanted to make their voices heard to the
>  ministers themselves and that she can see no reason why these 
> restrictions have been made. 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------- 
> Press release ends. [and the message continued, to underline the 
> point that the StWC didn't ask people to stay at home, which is what
>  submission to restrictions on the static protest would have meant:]
> 
> Join the protest tonight - be there in your masses - let's make our 
> voices heard."
> 
> 
> 
> You say: "Anyway, it would be interesting to have a journal or a 
> report written of those negotiations you just mentioned above, and 
> make them public to the other protesters (this list included of 
> course) so we may get to know which were these limitations you had to
>  acquiesce with in the first place. ... All i am asking for is some 
> light on these secret negotiations."
> 
> This is ridiculous. There were no 'secret negotiations', nor would 
> myself or Jillian have participated in any such thing as secret 
> negotiations. In fact, there were no negotiations at all. We *tried*
>  to negotiate a route for a demonstration (as assigned to do by a G8
>  planning meeting at New Roots in Spital Hill, I don't know if
> Adriana was there or not); the cops said they were waiting for
> decisions to be made by their superiors; the decision came; it was
> no. We reported all this to this list.
> 
> So, Adriana, if you want a discussion about principles, let's first 
> of all get the facts straight.
> 
> 
> greetings,
> 
> John S



-- 
"Porque o único sentido oculto das cousas 
   É elas não terem sentido oculto nenhum" (A. Caeiro)

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