[g8-sheffield] Terror n torture

[Jase]

Wrote stuff but then decided the point is: on such a central matter we would
need full consensus to have a statement for the group. As we have not got
concensus then we cannot have such a statement so...

I call that we move on. MOVE ON!
(think we're pretty much agreed, but dotting the t's and crossing the i's
would be a waste of energy, as someone pointed out about two weeks ago, hey
we're all adults here, etc)

I would suggest one way of addressing any concerns is to have NVDA workshops
which will make clear the issues involved to all those contemplating active
protest, as well as a way of sharing information and setting up support
networks.

There will be many different ways of campaigning against this, there are
already very interesting ideas of how to spread the message. The school
workshops will be really interesting, as would a statement prepared for the G8
by 'da yoof'. Anything getting out an alternative view will be good.

As it looks like any mass procession may be thwarted I would suggest a mass
leafletting/ protest/ music/ thingy with small groups and individuals moving
through town. This would require a convergence centre(s) or a gathering
point(s) to assemble before going into town seperately. I think at the first
meeting someone said there has been a similar action organised before, the
main thing is having a co-ordinated action which is not ghettoised and not
targetable as a 'body', although could have an agreed convergence point in
town. Would need a strong support network to make sure people are not
intimidated tho'

People acting as individuals shows the flaw in the 'War against Terror'. The
labels they use 'Al Queda' (a label invented by the CIA), 'Coalition forces'
(a label invented by the Pentagon) and so on are misunderstandings of the
individual reasons why people act as they do, and why some end up in extreme
situations commiting extreme acts, as a terrorist or soldier. We as protestors
join on a particular issue but we have our differences(!) We are not one body,
we are many. The labels that are put on us are false, we are names with minds
and reasons, not abstract numbers or concepts.

And on stopping the G8, I think Derby showed that we cannot really stop it
from coming here, unless we get a mass movement going in Sheffield, so here's
hoping...

Jason

p.s. Peace in the Park is on 11th June in the General Cemetery! (definitely!
(well, AFAIK:)) x

----- Original Message -----
From: "Philippe Deux" <hjdsmdr at mixmail.com>
To: <g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: [g8-sheffield] Terror n torture


>


> p.s. I'm more sort of arguing with myself here - just openly trying
> to find some ways through to make June something different.  It's a
> very, very rare chance that won't come again.  The spirit of the War
> or Terror is coming to visit!  What are we going to do?
>
> It seems to me that Derby has made a few people say, 'well - we don't
>  just want to end up in a protest pen!' But equally, the vital thing
> about protest - however 'successful' - has always been to make it
> clear to all that there *is* opposition.  We need to do something. So
> - what are we going to do?

Dan, it seems to me that you are really *glad* that the g8 summit is
being held in this country. (!)
You have a point there about the terrorist threat (i mean, in the face
of the media) but surely there are means , resources, equipments and the
hidden paraphernalia already protecting the summit,
my thesis is that enormous sums of money are being wasted because the
level of protesters (not terrorists) is much smaller than what is being
said. It 's been swollen , blown up to appear much more dangerous than
what it is (any *violence* in Derby?). Then someone asks us (a newly
created g8-sheffield) to make an oath that we won't be *violent* when
from the beginning to me at least it was clear that we are peaceful as
sheep may be.
So that would be adding insult to injury too.
Now some other entrepreneurial souls here have decided to use the topics
issues around the g8  to build up actions, performances, lectures, etc.
to whom the g8 might be an opportunity as to become profitable.




Dan wrote:

> Yes, they use terrorism as a justification for war, oppression, and
> keeping us in fear.  ("Of course the people don't want war... etc")
>
> My point is - none of this changes that fact that there is, in fact,
> a terrorist threat.  (One year on from the Madrid bombings, who would
>  deny the threat still exists?  Except perhaps a few folk who think
> governments would bomb their own citizens for political capital?  I
> personally think we should get as far away from such conspiracy
> theories as humanly possible.)
>
> And of course, there's a blurring of the line between terrorism and
> 'violent protest' (as the Star predicts will happen in June.)  Which
> is why we need to be all the sharper in making the distinctions
> crystal clear - to the media especially.
>
> Going about shouting "bush, blair, CIA, how many kids did you kill
> today?" ain't gonna do that.
>
> The cordon in Derby checked a top official of the World Bank several
> times before he got through.  Cars and personnel were all checked
> thoroughly. The police need a strategy for both making sure they do
> everything to stop a bomb attack - and however unlikely, it's not
> impossible - as well as containing protestors.  If I were in charge
> of policing such an event, protestors would be the least of my
> worries. I'm not saying it's a good thing - I'm just saying it's a
> thing!  And replying, 'they need terrorism to justify permanent war'
> still does nothing to actually address the fact of that terrorism, or
>  the use of it to engender more fear. *This* is what I'm saying we
> have to imagine some way of dealing with - along with shining a light
>  (as much as we can) on things like the global torture network / arms
>  fairs in London / erosion of civil liberties...
>
> And I'd also say that the global oil system is much more heavily
> dependent on the fact that people continue to buy cars, and our goods
>  transport continues to need oil.  If you got rid of the fear, I
> don't think anyone would be casting off their vehicles suddenly, or
> that we'd need our ocean and road goods networks any less, to keep
> ourselves kept in the style to which we're accustomed.
>
> p.s. I'm more sort of arguing with myself here - just openly trying
> to find some ways through to make June something different.  It's a
> very, very rare chance that won't come again.  The spirit of the War
> or Terror is coming to visit!  What are we going to do?
>
> It seems to me that Derby has made a few people say, 'well - we don't
>  just want to end up in a protest pen!' But equally, the vital thing
> about protest - however 'successful' - has always been to make it
> clear to all that there *is* opposition.  We need to do something. So
> - what are we going to do?
>
> Dan ----
>
> Chris wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> On Mon 21-Mar-2005 at 10:25:56AM +0000, Dan wrote:
>>
>>
>>> We can argue all we like about 'yeah, but they're terrorists
>>> too!'  Nevertheless, the threat exists. That's what they're
>>> mainly policing, not us.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Eh? The police operation in Derby was aimed at preventing any
>> decent protests happening and wasn't about preventing a terrorist
>> attack on the city...
>>
>>
>>> Is G8 Sheffield against both?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Of course!
>>
>> They appear to me to be two sides of the same coin -- the UK / US
>> governments / global capitalist oil based system currently is
>> heavily dependant on fear of terrorism, it's this centuries
>> equilivant of the cold war. They need terrorism to justify their
>> permanant war.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________ g8-sheffield mailing
> list g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
> http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/g8-sheffield
>
>


--
------
"It's hard to differentiate schizophrenic ramblings like 'Modernity
chunk where the sink goes flying on the ping-pang' from legitimate
terminology like 'Unstable equilibria lie on the nodal points of a
separatrix in phase space."
apologies for any cross-posting.