[g8-sheffield] Reasonable democracy

Mon May 9 11:51:28 BST 2005

Reasonable democracy:
I think the essence of our approach, every step of the way, should be to 'maximise the involvement of' - 'ordinary anti-war, anti-world poverty people'. 
Thinking back to our response to the initial attack on Iraq, we all got on our bikes or feet and set off for a (I've forgotten what they're called!!)(Critical Mass!!) mass piece of disruption to make our anti-war point. I was very happy with that. We came to the Parkway roundabout, went round it once, stopping all the traffic, and I was very happy with that, then we went round it again and I started noticing the looks on the faces of many of the drivers we were disrupting. They were starting to look distinctly peed off. When we started to go round it a third time I peeled off, deciding that this was becoming totally counter-productive. We need those people on our side. They were not the warmongers. (I know some people think that because they drive cars, use petrol etc that they might as well be the warmongers, an approach which I think is just daft.) 
The point is NOT to play a game of 'I'm more militant/committed/aggressive than you are'. 'So yah boo sucks to you'. However, if somebody can demonstrate to me that they are more EFFECTIVE  than I am then I must listen. The point is to define 'effectiveness'. What are our objectives? What methods can best achieve those objectives?
As I have suggested, I think 'effectiveness' is best defined as 'those tactics which draw in the widest possible number of people'. Exemplified by the Feb 15th demonstration of 2 million people. 'But it didn't work' I hear you shout. OR MAYBE IT DID WORK! There still hasn't been an attack on Syria, Iran, North Korea. Blair has been re-elected but on a much reduced majority, calls for his rapid resignation are coming thick and fast and the first MP to the left of Labour since 1945 has been elected. WE did that!
Yes, we must demonstate at Gleneagles and Edinburgh, but its not about developing ever more militant tactics on the day. Because there is one 'militant tactic' which has barely raised its head, as yet. To focus it sharply, I will put it like this:
IF, after Feb 15th, a great many of those 2 million had been able to go straight back into their workplaces and trade unions and argue effectively for industrial action to stop the war there and then, then Fallujah might not have happened and a great many of the 100,000 dead might well still be alive.
There are many obstacles to this form of 'militancy'. The necessary level of confidence within workplaces and trade unions is not there at the moment. So has to be built, probably around 'trivial' issues like pensions.
What I would argue, very strongly is that there are no short cuts to this. In fact, any 'short cuts' are long cuts. We can go round the roundabout as many times as we want but all we will achieve is to pee off the very people who should be with us. Sooner or later, building up the necessary confidence within workplaces HAS to be achieved and I think this would make a very good subject for discussions.
I'm sure there is much more that I should or could say, but that's probably enough for now.
(Except to mention that Nether Edge Against War is still ticking over. We are still not having meetings but there is lots of contact, by email, by phone, by people knocking on doors, though I don't think many other of the local groups are still doing this.)
Ian 'No short cuts' Wallace 

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Today's Topics:

1. Reasonable dimocracy (Steve Marshall)
2. list subs (john Crowther)
3. g8 (Gav Nicholl)
4. Event Added! (sheffield at indymedia.org)
5. Event Added! (sheffield at indymedia.org)
6. Re: Reasonable dimocracy (dougald hine)
7. counter-conference working group meeting on MONDAY (fabian)
8. Re: g8 (Helen and Nick)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 02:21:51 +0000
From: "Steve Marshall" 
Subject: [g8-sheffield] Reasonable dimocracy
To: g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Dear G8 reziztors.
Ello. I have read a little bit of your "protest" website and I wondered, 
"Has any one of you ever written or even thought of communicating with these 
Nasty G8 Security and "no justice except for the wealthy and powerful" 
ministers to ask them if you could attend their meetings and their dialogues 
or have you asked them/invited them formally to attend your counter 
conference?

Sometimes, when you have a deep divide and you need, somehow, to get to the 
other side... then a bridge, or bridges need to be built in order to do so.
I hope that you lot at least, understand this. I dont think that lot are 
capable of thinking about anything except their stinking money and filthy, 
oppressive power and greed. But, I suppose.....
We could ALWAYS ASK THEM?

Regards in solidarity and unity and all of that crap.
S.S.

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 07:59:49 +0100 (BST)
From: john Crowther 
Subject: [g8-sheffield] list subs
To: g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
Message-ID: <20050506065949.46199.qmail at web26404.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 12:30:26 +0100
From: "Gav Nicholl" 
Subject: [g8-sheffield] g8
To: 
Message-ID: <000a01c5522f$007782e0$0300a8c0 at none>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi there are a few of us in Doncaster wanting to get involved and would be grateful of any information/details of what/how we can do this.

Cheers Gav
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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 10:50:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: sheffield at indymedia.org
Subject: [g8-sheffield] Event Added!
To: g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
Message-ID: <20050506145009.709434C08F at bonney.protest.net>

Your event "TRAPESE Roadshow hits Sheffield" has been added to "Sheffield IMC".
Thank you for your contribution. Should you need to edit or update your
event information in the future, please use the following URL http://www.Protest.Net/imcsheffield/calendrome.cgi?eo=1&eid=525161&auth=641753DQ5W
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 10:52:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: sheffield at indymedia.org
Subject: [g8-sheffield] Event Added!
To: g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
Message-ID: <20050506145225.0F9164C08F at bonney.protest.net>

Your event "Have I got SchNEWS for you?" has been added to "Sheffield IMC".
Thank you for your contribution. Should you need to edit or update your
event information in the future, please use the following URL http://www.Protest.Net/imcsheffield/calendrome.cgi?eo=1&eid=525162&auth=K45W4RBD90
SAVE THIS EMAIL FOR FUTURE REFERENCE!

Please do not reply to this automated email. Should you have any questions
regarding your event and/or the calendar, please contact the calendar
administrator directly at sheffield at indymedia.org 

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 13:18:06 +0100
From: dougald hine 
Subject: Re: [g8-sheffield] Reasonable dimocracy
To: Steve Marshall ,
g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi Steve,

I like your approach. One of the events we've been talking about is
holding an alternative banquet to coincide with one of the exclusive
dinners the ministers have during their visit. The idea is to serve
the kind of food most of the world's population live on. I definitely
think we should invite the ministers to join us for that - not least
cos if they're serious about tackling poverty, they ought to try what
it's like, even if just for one meal.

I don't hold up that much hope of them coming to dinner, but I do
think sending the invitation makes it clear that we're not just
looking to antagonise... Similarly, we should invite them to the
counter conference. Have you got any suggestions for other ways we
could try and engage them?

Dougald

On 5/5/05, Steve Marshall wrote:
> Dear G8 reziztors.
> Ello. I have read a little bit of your "protest" website and I wondered,
> "Has any one of you ever written or even thought of communicating with these
> Nasty G8 Security and "no justice except for the wealthy and powerful"
> ministers to ask them if you could attend their meetings and their dialogues
> or have you asked them/invited them formally to attend your counter
> conference?
> 
> Sometimes, when you have a deep divide and you need, somehow, to get to the
> other side... then a bridge, or bridges need to be built in order to do so.
> I hope that you lot at least, understand this. I dont think that lot are
> capable of thinking about anything except their stinking money and filthy,
> oppressive power and greed. But, I suppose.....
> We could ALWAYS ASK THEM?
> 
> Regards in solidarity and unity and all of that crap.
> S.S.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> g8-sheffield mailing list
> g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
> http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/g8-sheffield
> 

-- 
Dougald Hine
46 Alderson Road, Sheffield S2 4UD
(+44)(0)7810 650213

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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 16:16:29 +0200
From: fabian 
Subject: [g8-sheffield] counter-conference working group meeting on
MONDAY
To: g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
Message-ID: <9B40FC70-BF02-11D9-8B9F-000393446E06 at in-no.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

Hi there..

I like to invite you to a first meeting of the counterconference 
working group
on Monday 9th May at 7pm in New Roots in Burngreave, Spital 
Hill...(where open meeting was)

we shall there reflect on whom to invite to the conference (really 
urgent for busy people outside sheffield by now)
brainstorm about content/structure and try to design a frame for the 
three days
create a call-out to uk and international groups to come and 
participate on the way up to scotland...

come and bring lots of ideas please

see you
Fabian

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Message: 8
Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 15:28:56 +0100 (BST)
From: Helen and Nick 
Subject: Re: [g8-sheffield] g8
To: Gav Nicholl 
Cc: g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
Message-ID: <20050507142856.26005.qmail at web86904.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Hi Gav! 
Thanks for getting in touch and offering to get
involved. We are now having weekly meetings on a
Wednesday at 7.30pm, meeting at the Rutland Arms pub,
which is right near the train station, if you can make
any of them.

I am involved in the publicity working group and we
need help with designing flyers and posters - if
that's where you skills lie. We have a basic one up on
the website (and wiki) at the moment and some posters
(not yet up on the website - will be soon). It would
also be fantastic if you could take some publicity
stuff to put round doncaster. I am also distributing
Dissent network posters for the big one in Gleneagles.
It would be so cool to have both events advertised
beyond Sheff. I am happy to post you some materials.

You might be more interested in other working groups
and they will hopefully be in touch about what help
they need.

We are also looking for banners to be made for the
summit, for convergence spaces and on protests. We
have a banner making workshop on in Sheff on Monday
night @7pm at a place called New roots on Spital Hill
if you want join others in messing about with paint! 
Again near the centre of town.

Cheers,
helen

--- Gav Nicholl wrote:

> Hi there are a few of us in Doncaster wanting to get
> involved and would be grateful of any
> information/details of what/how we can do this.
> 
> Cheers Gav>
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> g8-sheffield mailing list
> g8-sheffield at lists.aktivix.org
>
http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/g8-sheffield
> 

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