[LAF] LAF2

Mon Aug 22 06:55:06 UTC 2005

 To answer Steve's direct question, why I hv chosen the first and third Sat 
in the month, it's only because I wrote the msg. It was time to discuss 
concrete dates, and that's the ones that came up with. If it's 2nd and
4thor any evening in the week, fine, but at least we are now tabling
concrete
proposals.

 Regarding the more general question in Justin's message, I hv the greatest 
respect for Steve's contributions. I hv said so in one of my posts. He is 
much more a LAF person than I am or ever will be. The question here, I 
think, is what is LAF's purpose. Following our earlier discussions at FP, I 
believed it was a forum open to all where people explore and debate issues 
of the day (science, war, music, media, education… ) in a different light 
from that of the dominant ideology. With 'anarchist' in the name, there can 
be no mistake as to the frame of reference. I have no reservation therefore 
to invite lots of people (as LAF was doing when it was advertising in Time 
Out). What's on the label is what people will get. A vast majority of them 
will probably find it too extreme for their taste, so they won't come. At 
least they will learn that there exists out there an intellectually active 
and vibrant anarchist movement.

 It was my understanding that LAF's purpose was not solely to discuss 
anarchist issues amongst committed card-carrying anarchist ('are free-masons 
hijacking the anarchist movements?') or to plan actions (participation in 
this or that campaign). These topics fall outside the purpose of a 
discussion group open to all, I would think. 

 I may well be completely wrong in my understanding of what LAF is all 
about. In which case, I happily apologise for the suggestions made. 

 If every one's understanding, however, is more or less what I outlined 
above, we're back to the topic of days and venues. I personally like the 
idea of FP, it has the right atmosphere, participants would be giving their 
money to comrades and a few might buy books. The prob is opening times. If 
we could get FP to give us access on a weekday evening, would it not solve 
Steve's and others' problem?

 That's where I stand on this whole question. If I miss something, pse tell 
me.

 Christian

On 21/08/05, Joy Wood <joy_helbin at hotmail.com> wrote: 
> 
> Yeh, I agree with what Justin says and what Steve says. I do not think
> there was any slight intended to Steve by picking a first and third 
> Saturday
> instead of something more convenient for Steve. I think it was a case of
> picking anything at all and going with it, instead of just emailing back 
> and
> forth and back and forth and ending up with no meetings arranged at all.
> Having said that, the dates chosen ARE less convenient for Steve so how
> about, since Ed has only booked 3 September so far, if Ed books FP for 23
> September and thereafter for the rest of the year we go for the 2nd and 
> 4th
> Saturdays??? And Steve can pick some Fridays for meeting at the 
> Overdraught
> or RFH???
> 
> 
> >From: justin <hooper_jackson at yahoo.com>
> >To: LAF LIST <laf at lists.aktivix.org>
> >Subject: Re: [LAF] LAF2
> >Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 06:54:50 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >"I think the whole group would greatly suffer with out
> >me..."
> >
> >i think it's a great shame that what Steve says is true
> >here, yet he himself was the one who had to say it!
> >Anyone remember mutual support/solidarity, etc.?
> >
> >(not sure if Steve was being self deprecatingly
> >ironic by saying this, i don't think he was, and i think what
> >he says is true, and yet, to repeat, no one else
> >said it!)
> >
> >i mean the point is that Steve is one of the few ppl
> >who's been a regualar over the past nth years, and also
> >contributed to talks and the running of discussions...
> >and also has a good base in anarchist politics...
> >- there is not really anyone else who fits all these
> >LAF credentials within LAF!...
> >
> >i think having regulars is good, and also having a reasonable
> >base within anarchism is good, too... Outreach is important
> >as well,
> >but not to the detriment of destroying the anarchist base
> >which is the point of the thing in the first place... I mean
> >you need a sturdy, sustainable base to outreach in the first place!
> >
> >So, i think publicity should be first and foremost directed inwards
> >towards anarchists and anti-authoritarians...
> >A question to ask is why has the LAF apparently shrunk over recent years?
> >(Well since the late 90's as far as i can tell - i seem to remember
> >hearing that some primitivists became regualars - did that put everyone
> >else
> >off?! Maybe 1 or 2 peripherally involved individuals effectively
> >put ppl off around that time too?)...
> >
> >(Maybe
> >any general outward publicity is no bad thing - you'll only
> >get a few ppl here and there from the various hopefully
> >diverse sectors you're putting your publicity in - altho i
> >think the more diverse the advertising the better
> >- you don't want to rely on one or 2 sources...)
> >
> >Have not caught up with the other posts yet - so will go thru them...
> >But thought i should really respond to this post...
> >
> >Justin
> >
> >--- steve ash <steveash_2001 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > Not very happy with current developments now I've had
> > > time to think about them. As one of the last real
> > > anarchists left in the LAF, I can only think of two
> > > other regular attendees, I'm not really happy at all
> > > with the present ideas now I think about it and I
> > > think the whole group would greatly suffer with out
> > > me, though I still have plans of my own. If the
> > > meetings were on the 2nd and 4th of each month or
> > > something and started at 2pm rather than 3pm I might
> > > be able to attend on at least a monthly basis. As it
> > > is the LAF is already isolated from the anarchist
> > > movement and I'd rather work on a project that brought
> > > an anarchist discussion group closer into the
> > > mainstream of the anarchist movement.
> >
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