[LAF] bookfair

[justin]

I must say i find this whole area confusing...

my general view at the moment is that, as Chomsky
says, there are short term goals and long term goals
- short term goals may sometimes be in a reformist direction, 
Long term wise you're thinking about changing
the whole of society...

i'm happy to support firends of the Earth, say, and did voluntary work 
them a while ago - however i think it's true that they have become
far less radical over the years - i think Jonathan Porritt was their
director a while back and he was part of what became a
more insider/reformist outlook...

the organisation as a whole has improved it's structure and is self
conscious of having a hierachy - and they've tried to become less
hierachical - but the changes seem somewhat halfhearted... 

i've spoken to different ppl at their HQ and i think there's quite a range
of different views, from pretty much anarchist (but that's
not often) to, yes, it's true, literally,
eco fascist (that's very rare - no one takes the person expounding this view seriously!)
Basically on the whole they're not anti-business, and spend a lot of time lobbying 
government... they also have affiliated ocal groups who do local activism...

intuitively i feel greenism and anarchism are very closely related - 
however i find it frustrating that to me ecopolitics implies diversity
and anti-hierachy (think networks - not top down structure) 
wheras many greens don't see the significance of 
anarchism for ecology... 

on the other hand perhaps my approach is too simplistic... ecologism
and anarchism overlap but their history and development is different...

Anyway, on the one hand anarchists seem marginalised, on the other
greens seem unaware of anarchist possibilities... Greens organisations
initially were filled with ex-marxists dissillusioned with socialism
- whereas now greens have become much more reformist... 

Justin

--- stevphen shukaitis <stevphen at mutualaid.org> wrote:

> that's a pretty interesting question. part of me thinks that the green party in general
> is just
> bullshit and not worth the time at best - but i was just reading "the subversion of
> politics" by
> george katsiaficas, which has some interesting information about the formation of the
> green party
> in germany that is making me rethink that. basically he points at, at least during the
> inital
> phase of its formation, the green party was coming out of the anto-nuclear and
> ecologically
> oriented movements and thus had many close connections with interesting forms of
> radical
> organizing not based on electoral action. so there was part of the party that saw
> themselves as a
> vehicle more for keeping alive mass movements and a way to bring about political change
> by
> continually working with extra parliamentary movements. in other words electoralism
> wasn't a total
> focus or even necessarily the most important goal but only one tactic involved in a
> whole array.
> 
> while i'm not entirely sure what to make of that - and it seems this sort of
> perspective
> eventually got marginalized and the directly democratic spirit underpinning the party
> form which
> existed at first disappeared (for instance in the mandatory rotation of officers and
> other
> positions of power) - it does strike me as a much more interesting approach to politics
> than i had
> previously associated with the green party - and for that reason something which would
> be worth
> thinking about more. as an australian friend once quipped to me, sometimes green are
> like
> watermelons, that is green on the outside and red and black on the inside. hmm....
> while i haven't
> found that too often it certainly does seem like an appealing idea anyways.
> 
> cheers
> stevphen
> 
> 
> > Steve,
> >
> > I think a general eco talk for anarchists would have
> > to be about whether the audience thinks the Green
> > Party is partly anarchist and/or worth voting for (if
> > people vote at all).
> > Would people prefer to support pressure groups in
> > preference to a political party.
> > Do anarchists want to stick to anarchist organisations
> > to promote green ideas?
> >
> > Adrian
> >
> > --- steve ash <steveash_2001 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> Ok.
> >>
> >> They initially suggested three but have marked it
> >> down
> >> to two, perhaps because the two people concerned
> >> think
> >> they will pay themselves. However the idea is for it
> >> to be a series, and two isn't really a series.
> >>
> >> Ed has said I can make a descision if theres not
> >> many
> >> responces on this so I think we should commit LAF
> >> funds to one talk and do three 1 1/2 the state
> >> ideology talk, Ed talked about, an anti class
> >> struggle
> >> talk with me, and an eco talk with Adrian. I can do
> >> titles and blurbs for first two but have no idea
> >> what
> >> Adrian wants to talk about and have to post by
> >> Monday.
> >> If I hear nothing I'll just write up on a general
> >> ecology theme and we can change it later.
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > >From: steve ash <steveash_2001 at yahoo.co.uk>
> >> > >To: joy_helbin at hotmail.com,
> >> > adrianrwilliams at yahoo.co.uk,
> >> > >laf at lists.aktivix.org
> >> > >Subject: RE: [LAF] bookfair
> >> > >Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 19:49:03 +0100 (BST)
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >That would be great Adrian, do you have a theme
> >> > that
> >> > >would 'make the anarchists think out of the usual
> >> > >paths' or 'stimulate fresh debate' as some from
> >> the
> >> > >ABF have requested?
> >> > >
> >> > >Basically it would be like an LAF discussion I
> >> > think,
> >> > >with a short intro from the facillitator(s),
> >> > probably
> >> > >not to long, than open debate (chaired in ways
> >> that
> >> > >depend on numbers and practicalities, as usual
> >> with
> >> > >LAF). 1 1/2 hour debates I think. I would imagine
> >> > two
> >> > >facillitators per debate perhaps, so
> >> facillitators
> >> > can
> >> > >join in debate easier, dunno. Maybe you and Joy
> >> for
> >> > >eco one?
> >> > >
> >> > >In general to everyone, are we going with the
> >> > 'we'll
> >> > >pay for one if you pay for two' plan?
> >> > >
> >
> >
> >
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