[LAF] [allgendergroup] A Sweeding sex-worker on the criminalisation

Fri Jul 10 22:00:34 UTC 2009

Volodya

I stand by what I said.  I cannot see how your numbered points relate to my remarks.  Just as an example, in point 4 you use the term anti-sex.  I maintain that the sex industry is anti-sex because it pushes standardised models of sexuality and sexual behaviour and in contrast to this I will quote the radical feminist Andrea Dworkin who said we are a multi-sexed species.
http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/dworkin/LivingWithAndrea.html
I agree with you that prison is a horrible thing but will not go so far as to say there is never an excuse for arresting anybody in the society we live in at present.  Having a law against using prostituted men women and children *does* violate some (mostly men's) rights but by having such a law it makes a clear statement that the violation not just of the rights but of the personhood of all women will not be tolerated let alone normalised.  And this affects not just the prostituted women but all other women and girls who are subject to the idea in this society that women are just commodities to be bought and sold and, when unpaid, just there for the use of men to be either bought or taken without having a purpose of their own.  Prostitution and mainstream commercial films of it (otherwise known as porn films) promote the idea that women like whatever the men do to them and if they don't like it they soon will if he carries on or ups the ante and, if the women still don't like it they are withholding or frigid.  I agree that it should be no crime to accept payment for providing sexual access to oneself but at the same time, even though I agree that there never should be such a law against it and that all such laws should be struck from the statutes, it remains the case that such behaviour promotes the idea that it is acceptable for a subclass of women to be set aside for use by men as a kind of living spittoon and that as long as any woman remains prosituted then no woman is free.  Before slavery was abolished there were some slaves who said they wanted to remain slaves.  Their rights were violated when they were forced to become free but it remains the case that their remaining as slaves violated the rights of everybody because as long as there is no law against slavery then everyone is at risk of becoming slaves.  After all, there's no law against it.  If the slave asserted his rights to remain a slave he would violate the rights of others but of course by enacting a law to make it illegal to keep slaves that was violating the rights of the slave owner.  It is only in theory that we can have our absolute rights without it affecting others in society.

Joy

> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 14:53:59 +0100
> From: Volodya at WhenGendarmeSleeps.org
> To: allgendergroup at lists.riseup.net
> Subject: Re: [allgendergroup] A Sweeding sex-worker on the criminalisation
> 
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> Joy Wood wrote:
> > The interviewee stated that income-wise she is now better off because
> > she can charge more than previously. The criticisms she
> > made, where there is a lack of money provided for women, and where she
> > says she knows of women who have lost their accommodation due to
> > landlords being afraid of being accused of being a pimp; their children,
> > due to them refusing to cease prostitution; their liberty/income due to
> > two women sharing accommodation being accused of pimping each other,
> > none of these are due to the Swedish model per se. Sweden has removed
> > all laws from the statute which relate to prostituted women and men
> > themselves, so there is no excuse for arresting or penalising
> > prostituted women. These problems which the interviewee cites are due
> > to lingering prejudices against prostituted women and/or ignorance of
> > the legal position by the police and judiciary and social services and
> > society. Attitudes do not change overnight and people are continuing in
> > the same vein despite prostituted women now not being subject to law
> > themselves as their behaviour as prostituted women is not illegal.
> 
> Ok, i've just watched the interview again:
> 
> 1. She said that she is better off now because she is Swedish and working
> indoors. Not because "the law" made it better for sex workers. But, just like I
> am better off if UK education system introduces higher top-up fees, because that
> would lessen the pressure on UK universities to raise the international student
> fees, but i am not advocating top-up fees for British students.
> 2. Criticism was the lack of money for any social program which could help women
> who want to quit working as a sex worker, not that they give no money to women.
> She then made fun of calling prostitution a "social problem" and solving it
> through criminal system.
> 3. If criminal charges for pimps are not part of the Swedish model then what is?
> You yourself, Joy, constantly talked about that as a positive thing; i.e. that
> Sweden has criminalised "pimps and johns" as you call them. That *is* what
> Swedish model is all about. So when they arrest somebody for pimping their
> mother or a comrade, it's too late to back away and say "wow, this was so
> unexpected".
> 4. Saying that this is not a problem with the law but with the social attitudes
> is a double standard. Because the government and anti-sex lobby claim that the
> law is needed precisely because of those attitudes. Thus one cannot defend the
> law and not place it in the context of the contemporary society.
> 
> I will agree with you on one point (partially), "there is no excuse for
> arresting or penalising [sex workers]". That is to say that i believe that there
> is never an excuse for arresting anybody.
> 
> - Volodya
> 
> 
> >> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 12:17:22 +0100
> >> From: Volodya at WhenGendarmeSleeps.org
> >> To: laf at lists.aktivix.org; allgendergroup at lists.riseup.net
> >> Subject: [allgendergroup] A Sweeding sex-worker on the criminalisation
> > of clients
> >>
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D7nOh57-I8
> > 
> > Watch this and do not allow anybody to tell you that Sweden is a good
> >> model for
> > sex workers.
> > 
> > - Volodya
> 
> 
> - --
> http://freedom.libsyn.com/ Echo of Freedom, Radical Podcast
> http://eng.anarchopedia.org/ Anarchopedia, A Free Knowledge Portal
> http://www.freedomporn.org/ Freedom Porn, anarchist and activist smut
> 
> "None of us are free until all of us are free." ~ Mihail Bakunin
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