[LAF] Re Re: rights

Thu Jul 23 17:58:06 UTC 2009

I diId not say anyone should be "Re Educated" that is something quite sinister as you know

I was talking about Education that does not in the first place 
 encourage sexual stereo types, education as in spreading for example anarchist ideas
being a form of education

I think the question of cosmetic surgery IS related to sex work  because it reflects  how society
treats women and what it "expects" of them  I only raised it because Joy mentioned it today, I did NOT accuse you of not   addressing  that particular issue as it had not come up on this discussion before whereas misogyny  had

Ed McArthur   07981  900  563            

www.eventsandissues.bravehost.com
see also
www.freewebs.com/bookevents
Conway Hall Sunday Concerts
www.conwayhallsundayconcerts.org.uk
www.freewebs.com/secularcivilrights

--- On Thu, 7/23/09, VolodyA! V Anarhist <Volodya at WhenGendarmeSleeps.org> wrote:

From: VolodyA! V Anarhist <Volodya at WhenGendarmeSleeps.org>
Subject: Re: [LAF] rights
To: "List - London Anarchist Forum" <laf at lists.aktivix.org>
Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 6:38 PM

It is Joy and not clients who see sex workers that way. I watch shit loads of
porn, and thus can be qualified by your 'client' label, i even pay for one
pornographic web-site for the membership. I do not see people who are there as
'sex receptacles' and neither is that type of opinion tolerated on the web-site
(that rule is explicitly stated). The only people who i have heard express such
beliefs are anti-sex feminists.

>  You  have failed to address in any way the question of misogyny
> without which there would be no demand for prostitution or porn

I address it quite directly. I openly say that 'question' (more of an assumption
really) is false.

> Why are you so sure such attitudes would persists in a future Society ,
> thereby creating the demand for "Voluntary"  sex work ?
> 
> I am more concerned however about the present (2009)
> Today Joy pointed out to me that Just down the road from
>  where I live there is a large poster advertising cosmetic surgery for
> Woman and promoting the idea of this being a good(and no doubt as a
> subtext necessary)  thing
> My res pone ?  " In 2009"  ( I also plan to subvert that particular ad)
>  
> This is another example of misogyny the idea
>  that women need to have cosmetic surgery to /improve /themselves for
> the benefit of men

That is a loaded assumption. It *is* a problem that we have to 'improve'
ourselves constantly in the capitalist society, in order to create the rat-race
culture. But as that has fuck all to do with sex work, i did not address it.
There are also problems of diminishing water supplies in Africa, but we are also
not discussing those in relation to sex work, are we?

> Your whole position fails to address the question of why such attitudes
> persist and how to educate against them, you seem
> to want to accommodate them and then spin them out using the language of
> freedom and choice and accusing those who do
> of opposing those things and being anti sex to boot
>  
> Ed

Your final statements are also false. I have started the whole discussion with
the acknowledgement that prostitution is a part of capitalist society, and as
such needs to stop. In the same way as restaurants and universities need to stop
existing. But i am not going to advertise the idea that we need to 're-educate'
those who cook food or prepare lectures. What we do need to do (in 2009) is to
remove the stigma associated with the people (for example about calling them
'sexual receptacles').

                    - Volodya

> Ed McArthur   07981  900  563            Nestlé-Free small
> <http://www.babymilkaction.org/resources/boycott/nestlefree.html>
>  
> <http://www.babymilkaction.org/resources/boycott/nestlefree.html> 
> *www.eventsandissues.bravehost.com
> <http://www.eventsandissues.bravehost.com/>*
> *see also*
> *www.freewebs.com/bookevents <http://www.freewebs.com/bookevents>*
> *Conway Hall Sunday Concerts*
> *www.conwayhallsundayconcerts.org.uk
> <http://www.conwayhallsundayconcerts.org.uk/>*
> *www.freewebs.com/secularcivilrights
> <http://www.freewebs.com/secularcivilrights>*
> **** 
> * <http://www.freewebs.com/secularcivilrights>* 
> ** 
> *   *
>  
>  
> 
> 
> --- On *Thu, 7/23/09, VolodyA! V Anarhist
> /<Volodya at WhenGendarmeSleeps.org>/* wrote:
> 
> 
>     From: VolodyA! V Anarhist <Volodya at WhenGendarmeSleeps.org>
>     Subject: Re: [LAF] rights
>     To: "List - London Anarchist Forum" <laf at lists.aktivix.org>
>     Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 12:10 PM
> 
> Joy Wood wrote:
>> Putting aside for the moment the fact the subject - ie, that in
>> prostitution (mostly) women are being sexually harassed and exploited
>> and their own human needs and sexual desires negated - has once again
>> been dropped in favour of erroneously accusing _anti-prostitution
>> activists_ of being anti-_prostituted-women_ theorists.....the
> argument
>> below seems to hinge on the idea that because human beings are
> rapacious
>> it is necessary for some women men and LGBTI adults and children to be
>> set aside as an underclass (voluntarily if possible, or paid or bribed
>> if not) to be used as sexual receptacles so that others can be saved
>> from rape.
> 
> Why are you calling human beings (prostitutes and other sex workers)
> 'sexual
> receptacles'? I think that fits even your definition of sexual
> harassment.
> 
>                     - Volodya
> 

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