[matilda] the PGA - my little bit

cuthbert at riseup.net cuthbert at riseup.net
Thu Oct 6 16:23:20 BST 2005 

The case for the defence presents item A to the jury:

http://lists.aktivix.org/pipermail/matilda/2005-September/000505.html

"Stop cluttering up my inbox with your nonsense!"

"Especially you cuthbert!"





> Actually Dan, it has NOTHING to do with my sense of humour. It has to do
> with the fact that Cuthbert is persistent in these back hand comments and
> I
> want to know when he's going to stop it.
>
> I'm not going to be at the social either.
>
> =====================
>
> "Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination"
> - Oscar Wilde
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: dan at aktivix.org
> To: matilda at lists.aktivix.org
> Subject: RE: [matilda] the PGA - my little bit
> Date: Thu,  6 Oct 2005 15:54:20 +0100
>
> Eek. Cuthbert - it definitely appears there's a global sense of humour
> bypass
> today.
>
> I have a feeling this evening could be highly amusing!
>
> Dan
> ---
>
>
> Quoting Joe Morris <malatesta_uk at hotmail.com>:
>
>  > >>P.S. I have just discovered a new reason to ratify the PGA halmarks -
> i
>  > >>think it might be the only way to stop joe from moaning about them(!)
>  >
>  > I'm bored of having my opinions belittled by you at any given
> opportunity. I
>  >
>  > don't think you're funny and I don't appreciate comments like this, or
> for
>  > that matter any others that you make to my face.
>  >
>  > Please stop it.
>  >
>  > =====================
>  >
>  > "Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of
> imagination"
>  > - Oscar Wilde
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > ----Original Message Follows----
>  > From: cuthbert at riseup.net
>  > To: matilda at lists.aktivix.org
>  > Subject: [matilda] the PGA - my little bit
>  > Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 07:32:52 -0700 (PDT)
>  >
>  > hi everyone,
>  >
>  >    Sorry for causing so much chaos and destruction but i got home from
> work
>  > about 3 am, was a little tipsy and thought 'what the hell!'.  However
> on
> a
>  > more serious note my last email reflects the fact that on wednesdays
>  > meeting we could have ratified the PGA halmarks!  In my opinion
>  > depending how we interpreted dan's contribution by email we would have
>  > been within our right to.  From what i gathered i was the least in
> favour
>  > and on a point a principle if the 7 other people decided that they
> really
>  > wanted them i would have stood aside.  People have put quite abit of
> time
>  > and effort into trying to sort out this PGA/ what the hell are we thing
>  > and when nobody from the 'i really really dont want the PGA halmarks'
> camp
>  > turned up it stole the opportunity from the people in favour of the PGA
> to
>  > present their case.
>  >
>  > My personal disagreements with the PGA halmarks are:
>  > 1)There is not a good enough reason to ratify them - the three reasons
> i
>  > have been given to adopt them so far are symbolism, symbolism and that
>  > they are a no sell-out clause (i realise that i have abbreviated and
>  > generalised on this but - sorry).
>  > 2)There is a potential that they will be used to
> exclude/restrict/devalue
>  > other peoples activities and these are activities that arent evil and
>  > arent being carried out by state-infiltrators etc... but maybe arent as
>  > political as people want them to be (e.g. art & music) or include
> trying
>  > to persuade (lobby) certain NGOs or regeneration bodies etc...
>  > 3)If the PGA halmarks are our statement to the world then i think the
>  > world (and therefore our attitude to it) is far too complex (mainly
>  > because we are such a diverse group of people) to be summed up in a
> matter
>  > of a few statements (maybe we could have the PGA as one of many
>  > guidelines/mission statements).
>  > 4)I dont think that the PGA halmarks are designed to be applied to
>  > building and are better applied to direct action/affinity group.
>  > 5)I think that this debate is a dishonest one because it appears to me
>  > that part of the 'no sell-out clause' is the idea that alot of people
> dont
>  > want the building to turn down the road of trying to apply for funding
>  > etc... they would prefer it to be held in a more confrontational manner
>  > (squatted etc...) and fear that unless they get the PGA halmarks
> ratified
>  > we will slip down the road of becoming like so many other wooly-liberal
>  > organisations.  If this is the case then we need to have a proper
> debate
>  > on the medium term use of the building which includes information from
> the
>  > legal and futures collective.
>  >
>  > I have watched and participated in this debate for a while and in my
>  > opinion my disagreements with the adopting the PGA halmarks are not
> based
>  > on anything that can't be solved so if someone can allay my fears then
>  > they can have my vote.  To be clear on this, i dont have a problem on
> the
>  > wording of the halmarks or what they stand for, my main issue is about
>  > whether they are suitible for the matilda collective and therefore
> whether
>  > or not it is right for us to adopt them.
>  >
>  > Lastly, i would like to assure those that were worried about an
> anarchist
>  > dictatorship emerging(!) the people in the meeting were well aware of
>  > other peoples feelings on the PGA halmarks and one of the reasons we
>  > decided not to ratify was because we wanted to take into account how
> the
>  > people who werent present at the meeting felt.
>  >
>  > That is enough from me for now (although it might not be the last!)
>  > cuthbert
>  >
>  > P.S. I have just discovered a new reason to ratify the PGA halmarks - i
>  > think it might be the only way to stop joe from moaning about them(!)
>  >
>  >
>  >
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