[matilda] the PGA - my little bit

Joe Morris malatesta_uk at hotmail.com
Thu Oct 6 16:41:50 BST 2005 

So your sly comments and provocations are because of that?

Fine. I apologise for my one off comment to you cuthbert, but your constant 
sniping and petulant attempts to wind me up and belittle me are getting to 
much now. If they are a joke, I dont fine them funny. If you are attempting 
to provoke me, why? If you dont agree with my opinions, fine, but that 
doesnt mean I have to take your bullshit.

Just stop it! Ok?

=====================

"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination"
- Oscar Wilde



----Original Message Follows----
From: cuthbert at riseup.net
To: matilda at lists.aktivix.org
Subject: RE: [matilda] the PGA - my little bit
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 08:23:20 -0700 (PDT)

The case for the defence presents item A to the jury:

http://lists.aktivix.org/pipermail/matilda/2005-September/000505.html

"Stop cluttering up my inbox with your nonsense!"

"Especially you cuthbert!"





 > Actually Dan, it has NOTHING to do with my sense of humour. It has to do
 > with the fact that Cuthbert is persistent in these back hand comments and
 > I
 > want to know when he's going to stop it.
 >
 > I'm not going to be at the social either.
 >
 > =====================
 >
 > "Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination"
 > - Oscar Wilde
 >
 >
 >
 > ----Original Message Follows----
 > From: dan at aktivix.org
 > To: matilda at lists.aktivix.org
 > Subject: RE: [matilda] the PGA - my little bit
 > Date: Thu,  6 Oct 2005 15:54:20 +0100
 >
 > Eek. Cuthbert - it definitely appears there's a global sense of humour
 > bypass
 > today.
 >
 > I have a feeling this evening could be highly amusing!
 >
 > Dan
 > ---
 >
 >
 > Quoting Joe Morris <malatesta_uk at hotmail.com>:
 >
 >  > >>P.S. I have just discovered a new reason to ratify the PGA halmarks 
-
 > i
 >  > >>think it might be the only way to stop joe from moaning about 
them(!)
 >  >
 >  > I'm bored of having my opinions belittled by you at any given
 > opportunity. I
 >  >
 >  > don't think you're funny and I don't appreciate comments like this, or
 > for
 >  > that matter any others that you make to my face.
 >  >
 >  > Please stop it.
 >  >
 >  > =====================
 >  >
 >  > "Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of
 > imagination"
 >  > - Oscar Wilde
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  > ----Original Message Follows----
 >  > From: cuthbert at riseup.net
 >  > To: matilda at lists.aktivix.org
 >  > Subject: [matilda] the PGA - my little bit
 >  > Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 07:32:52 -0700 (PDT)
 >  >
 >  > hi everyone,
 >  >
 >  >    Sorry for causing so much chaos and destruction but i got home from
 > work
 >  > about 3 am, was a little tipsy and thought 'what the hell!'.  However
 > on
 > a
 >  > more serious note my last email reflects the fact that on wednesdays
 >  > meeting we could have ratified the PGA halmarks!  In my opinion
 >  > depending how we interpreted dan's contribution by email we would have
 >  > been within our right to.  From what i gathered i was the least in
 > favour
 >  > and on a point a principle if the 7 other people decided that they
 > really
 >  > wanted them i would have stood aside.  People have put quite abit of
 > time
 >  > and effort into trying to sort out this PGA/ what the hell are we 
thing
 >  > and when nobody from the 'i really really dont want the PGA halmarks'
 > camp
 >  > turned up it stole the opportunity from the people in favour of the 
PGA
 > to
 >  > present their case.
 >  >
 >  > My personal disagreements with the PGA halmarks are:
 >  > 1)There is not a good enough reason to ratify them - the three reasons
 > i
 >  > have been given to adopt them so far are symbolism, symbolism and that
 >  > they are a no sell-out clause (i realise that i have abbreviated and
 >  > generalised on this but - sorry).
 >  > 2)There is a potential that they will be used to
 > exclude/restrict/devalue
 >  > other peoples activities and these are activities that arent evil and
 >  > arent being carried out by state-infiltrators etc... but maybe arent 
as
 >  > political as people want them to be (e.g. art & music) or include
 > trying
 >  > to persuade (lobby) certain NGOs or regeneration bodies etc...
 >  > 3)If the PGA halmarks are our statement to the world then i think the
 >  > world (and therefore our attitude to it) is far too complex (mainly
 >  > because we are such a diverse group of people) to be summed up in a
 > matter
 >  > of a few statements (maybe we could have the PGA as one of many
 >  > guidelines/mission statements).
 >  > 4)I dont think that the PGA halmarks are designed to be applied to
 >  > building and are better applied to direct action/affinity group.
 >  > 5)I think that this debate is a dishonest one because it appears to me
 >  > that part of the 'no sell-out clause' is the idea that alot of people
 > dont
 >  > want the building to turn down the road of trying to apply for funding
 >  > etc... they would prefer it to be held in a more confrontational 
manner
 >  > (squatted etc...) and fear that unless they get the PGA halmarks
 > ratified
 >  > we will slip down the road of becoming like so many other 
wooly-liberal
 >  > organisations.  If this is the case then we need to have a proper
 > debate
 >  > on the medium term use of the building which includes information from
 > the
 >  > legal and futures collective.
 >  >
 >  > I have watched and participated in this debate for a while and in my
 >  > opinion my disagreements with the adopting the PGA halmarks are not
 > based
 >  > on anything that can't be solved so if someone can allay my fears then
 >  > they can have my vote.  To be clear on this, i dont have a problem on
 > the
 >  > wording of the halmarks or what they stand for, my main issue is about
 >  > whether they are suitible for the matilda collective and therefore
 > whether
 >  > or not it is right for us to adopt them.
 >  >
 >  > Lastly, i would like to assure those that were worried about an
 > anarchist
 >  > dictatorship emerging(!) the people in the meeting were well aware of
 >  > other peoples feelings on the PGA halmarks and one of the reasons we
 >  > decided not to ratify was because we wanted to take into account how
 > the
 >  > people who werent present at the meeting felt.
 >  >
 >  > That is enough from me for now (although it might not be the last!)
 >  > cuthbert
 >  >
 >  > P.S. I have just discovered a new reason to ratify the PGA halmarks - 
i
 >  > think it might be the only way to stop joe from moaning about them(!)
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
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 >  > matilda at lists.aktivix.org
 >  > http://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/matilda
 >  >
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