[SSC] Awards, acceptance criteria, funding [Was: Letter of invitation to academics]

[Joss Winn]

On 28/02/11 20:40, Peter Somerville wrote:
> Whoa there, Joss!
> 

Hi Pete,

> I'm not sure that a workers' co-op is the right model for us. I think
> it should be an unincorporated association, like most voluntary and
> community groups, at least to start with. The proposed funding regime
> (with which I agree) of annual subscriptions and donations of time,
> money and expertise fits well with a voluntary association, and does
> not fit with a workers' co-operative.
> 

Yes, I agree. I misunderstood what was meant by a workers' co-op
originally. See the notes from our recent meeting. Charles Cooke from
the LCDA basically advised what you are suggesting, I think. An
unincorporated co-operative. This made sense to everyone present.

> I may be out of line here but I don't see philosophy as a core social
> science subject.
> 
> I often hear it said that the government is removing all funding for
> teaching social sciences but it's not quite true, is it? Because they
> will be funding the loans to the students to pay the fees, at least
> up to £6k, won't they?
> 

I don't think they've decided what they're doing yet, have they? The
White Paper was delayed recently.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12577227

Certainly, they are shifting the burden of funding from general taxation
to individual debt. We don't know the effect of this on student numbers
and therefore Faculty income. At our meeting, Gary described the
responses he was getting from his FE students and it's genuinely putting
them off the idea of going to university. Another story I heard the
other day (from a survey of 200 students and their families) was that
they were attracted to courses with the *highest* fees as price was seen
as a measure of quality. Overall, I don't think this will affect the
middle-class much, but will deter working class students and their families.

This raises another point about whether we aim to attract and accept
students "who are otherwise excluded" (as Charles has assumed in our
draft constitution and business plan - recently sent to this list for
discussion), or whether we wish to attract and accept anyone, regardless
of income, age, ability to pay, etc. I was talking to my uncle over the
weekend, who is retired, and he asked whether it would be open to people
like him to join as students, as he thought there would be a strong
interest from his age group.


> A certificate in higher education is what is currently sometimes
> awarded to students who successfully complete the first year of an
> undergraduate degree (and a diploma in HE for those who complete two
> years). If we are to attract students, I think we need to be able to
> offer degrees (e.g. foundations degrees) or their equivalent. 

We do need this discussion. By "their equivalent", do you mean some form
of formally recognised qualification?

I originally assumed this (as did Mike, when we started thinking the
whole SSC idea through), but I've changed my mind. We brought this up at
the meeting the other day and no-one present feel it was necessary to
provide degree awards, partly due to the cost of receiving degree
awarding powers, but also because we felt the SSC could offer something
different yet equally compelling to certain people. However, we were all
very much in favour of providing an experience "of higher education
equivalent to a degree"

What do other people think? We clearly need to agree on this. Like
everything, our thinking on this can evolve over time by consensus. What
we're concentrating on now is what's required to get up and running and
attract academic and student members who are supportive of what we're
doing and want to get involved in the running of the SSC.

> Of
> course these students need to be people who would not otherwise have
> attended a university, so that we are not seen to be in competition
> with the University of Lincoln. 

If this is the case (I'm not convinced it is), then we need some form of
acceptance criteria that reflects it. We need a separate discussion
thread relating to acceptance criteria. I'll create one.

On the matter of competition with the University of Lincoln, I think
that if we do not offer formally recognised qualifications (some kind of
existing degree award), then we're not in competition with the
university. I certainly wouldn't want to be in competition with the
university (my employer!). I think we're trying to create a radical
alternative to mainstream HE institutions in both form (barely
institutional), scale (small) and purpose (crudely put - 'for the sake
of higher learning'). I would like to think that it would be a
relatively straight forward decision for prospective students to make
between the Uni of Lincoln or the SSC as they will be so radically
different.

> Under the new funding regime, it
> should be easier to set up as a 'free university', attended by
> students who will be eligible for government loans. This would enable
> the Centre to be funded on a more secure basis. This may be ruled out
> on ideological grounds but I think it needs to be considered.
> 

Personally and ideologically, I would prefer that the SSC did not
encourage its students to take on loans to directly fund their education
at the SSC. I would prefer that their education was supported by the
contributions of SSC members in a spirit of mutual aid.

Shall we continue this discussion on the thread we've started around
funding the SSC:

https://lists.aktivix.org/pipermail/ssc/2011-February/000024.html

cheers,
Joss

> Pete
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org
> [mailto:ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org] On Behalf Of Joss Winn Sent:
> 28 February 2011 15:55 To: ssc at lists.aktivix.org Subject: [SSC]
> Letter of invitation to academics
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> May I suggest that we use this link and discussion thread as a way to
> collectively author a letter of invitation to academics?
> 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E2Bcb_vS2Ulu6uK4nhLvArds7sjD83EukgjmF9_duso/edit?hl=en_GB&authkey=COq-u7cN
>
>  It's a Google doc. You don't need to sign in to edit it (it's empty
> right now). Feel free to edit the document directly or you can insert
> comments if you prefer. A full revision history of the document is
> always available from the file menu.
> 
> I think we may as well start with the description we have already:
> 
> http://socialsciencecentre.org.uk
> 
> Cheers Joss
> 
> 
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