[SSC] SSC Digest, Vol 9, Issue 18
Carrigan, Mark
M.A.Carrigan at warwick.ac.uk
Mon Sep 26 10:03:43 UTC 2011
Hey all,
I've had quite a few people quiz the name I've put on that list - it's only the category I've been working with in my head so open to any other suggestions. I think there's definitely a family resemblance between these projects (in the philosophical sense of the term) but I'm deliberately not trying to specify what this is any sort of precise or expansive way; or offer analysis of them beyond the podcasts I'm trying to do with people from each of the projects. On which note, could I do one with SSC and, if so, how would it work, in terms of who speaks and what they say etc?
I'm also really keen to try and get people from different projects talking - it's largely why I've put the list together. The university project thing in London mid October is probably a good starting point for this but obviously no reason why it should stop there.
Cheers,
Mark
Mark Carrigan
Doctoral Researcher
Department of Sociology
University of Warwick
e-mail: m.a.carrigan at warwick.ac.uk
web: www.markcarrigan.net
twitter: @mark_carrigan
-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Mon 26/09/2011 10:32 AM
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Subject: SSC Digest, Vol 9, Issue 18
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: SSC Digest, Vol 9, Issue 17 (Amsler, Sarah)
2. Re: SSC Digest, Vol 9, Issue 17 (Andre Pusey)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 09:12:48 +0000
From: "Amsler, Sarah" <S.S.AMSLER at aston.ac.uk>
To: "ssc at lists.aktivix.org" <ssc at lists.aktivix.org>
Subject: Re: [SSC] SSC Digest, Vol 9, Issue 17
Message-ID:
<9774754FC22DE74C9E03756E9706CD44027E80 at exch-mb-l4-02.campus.aston.ac.uk>
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Many thanks to David and Richard.
I've seen the University Project and am unfortunately already committed, but agree that this sort of thing is already in motion and it would be really useful to have some sense of what happens there. Is anyone from the SSC going?
I entirely agree with Richard -- caution about what seems to be really little and/or flawed analysis, both in the 'list' and in the critique of 'the list'. I thought in that sense it would make a good talking point.
Perhaps we can talk about a mapping/symposium/whatever at the next meeting?
S
-----Original Message-----
From: ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org [mailto:ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org] On Behalf Of ssc-request at lists.aktivix.org
Sent: 26 September 2011 08:56
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Subject: SSC Digest, Vol 9, Issue 17
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Today's Topics:
1. Maps and politics of 'radical education projects' (Amsler, Sarah)
2. Re: Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
(David Young)
3. Re: Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
(Richard Hall)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 21:58:32 +0000
From: "Amsler, Sarah" <S.S.AMSLER at aston.ac.uk>
To: "ssc at lists.aktivix.org" <ssc at lists.aktivix.org>
Subject: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
Message-ID:
<9774754FC22DE74C9E03756E9706CD44027CFD at exch-mb-l4-02.campus.aston.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear all,
I came across the two texts below and would be interested in discussing them with anyone also interested. I think they offer a way into some pressing questions about major concepts (freeness and freedom, radicalism, anarchistic politics, etc.) that are being both materialised in practice and called into question. It might be an interesting exercise, for example, to try to formulate responses to some of the (perhaps rhetorically framed) questions in the second.
Sociological Imagination's working list of 'radical education projects' in the UK:
http://sociologicalimagination.org/a-work-in-progress
Andrew Taggart's critical questioning of the above forms, as particularly read:
http://andrewjtaggart.com/2011/09/19/on-the-other-side-of-radical-education-lies-wisdom-an-exhortation-or-on-the-question-whether-really-free-is-really-good/
After spending a second weekend working with the people of the Free University of Liverpool (to whom I will send a copy of this message), I am clearer that there is certainly a moment of emergence with these different projects, which have been developing for a little (or long) while, all coming into some serious material form but often autonomously from each other. I'd like to think about the place of this in history, the context of this historical moment and the forms of politics and pedagogies being developed -- and whether or not they really are all characterised by a 'shared ethos of anarchism' (an argument which I do not entirely agree with) it seems like a wider conversation to have on the radar. I have had some thoughts about at some point in the reasonably near future bringing people involved in these different projects/spaces together to share experiences and imaginaries?
Best,
Sarah
Dr Sarah S Amsler
Lecturer in Sociology
Aston University
Birmingham, B4 7ET, UK
+44 (0) 121 204 3072
s.s.amsler at aston.ac.uk
Campaign for the Public University: http://publicuniversity.org.uk
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 07:28:48 +0100
From: David Young <lostmoya at gmail.com>
To: "Amsler, Sarah" <S.S.AMSLER at aston.ac.uk>, "ssc at lists.aktivix.org"
<ssc at lists.aktivix.org>
Subject: Re: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
Message-ID:
<CAMrkkaQOxpN7kMf2xT7f7MMx4t76Evna98FqEogD3uFwhPSTXg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear Sarah,
Thanks for sharing these texts and your thoughts around this central issue.
On the idea of bringing people together, I think this is an excellent suggestion, and is in fact what one such "alternative education" project is attempting to do in London next month. Dougald Hine's "University Project"
is holding a "Universities Past and Future" event at the Hub in Westminster from 14th - 16th October. More here:
http://univproject.pbworks.com/w/page/45692087/The%20University%20Project
That said, it may be that we, the SSC, consider hosting a similar event to discuss, as you suggest, the politics and pedagogies of forms of alternative education.
Thanks,
David.
On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 10:58 PM, Amsler, Sarah <S.S.AMSLER at aston.ac.uk>wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I came across the two texts below and would be interested in
> discussing them with anyone also interested. I think they offer a way
> into some pressing questions about major concepts (freeness and
> freedom, radicalism, anarchistic politics, etc.) that are being both
> materialised in practice and called into question. It might be an
> interesting exercise, for example, to try to formulate responses to
> some of the (perhaps rhetorically framed) questions in the second.
>
> Sociological Imagination's working list of 'radical education
> projects' in the UK:
> http://sociologicalimagination.org/a-work-in-progress
>
> Andrew Taggart's critical questioning of the above forms, as
> particularly
> read:
>
> http://andrewjtaggart.com/2011/09/19/on-the-other-side-of-radical-educ
> ation-lies-wisdom-an-exhortation-or-on-the-question-whether-really-fre
> e-is-really-good/
>
> After spending a second weekend working with the people of the Free
> University of Liverpool (to whom I will send a copy of this message),
> I am clearer that there is certainly a moment of emergence with these
> different projects, which have been developing for a little (or long)
> while, all coming into some serious material form but often
> autonomously from each other. I'd like to think about the place of
> this in history, the context of this historical moment and the forms
> of politics and pedagogies being developed -- and whether or not they
> really are all characterised by a 'shared ethos of anarchism' (an
> argument which I do not entirely agree with) it seems like a wider
> conversation to have on the radar. I have had some thoughts about at
> some point in the reasonably near future bringing people involved in
> these different projects/spaces together to share experiences and imaginaries?
>
> Best,
> Sarah
>
> Dr Sarah S Amsler
> Lecturer in Sociology
> Aston University
> Birmingham, B4 7ET, UK
> +44 (0) 121 204 3072
> s.s.amsler at aston.ac.uk
>
> Campaign for the Public University: http://publicuniversity.org.uk
>
> _______________________________________________
> SSC mailing list
> SSC at lists.aktivix.org
> https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/ssc
>
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 08:55:50 +0100
From: "Richard Hall" <RHall1 at dmu.ac.uk>
To: <ssc at lists.aktivix.org>
Subject: Re: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
Message-ID:
<290C0FAF9352E54EB483CBA4ED12133C05A1047E at artemis.LEC-ADMIN.dmu.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
A note of caution - Taggart has also written for New Public Thinkers at:
http://newpublicthinkers.org/?p=35 I think that this was a weak assessment of the left, based on traditional/orthodox narratives of the state and capital. This lack of an engagement in the history/critique of the left/radical leftist politics is asserted again in the link Sarah posts below, which at a trivial level basis its criticism on freedom, based on the use of "free" (as in monetary value) in the title of these "anarchist" schools. In part, this may be the case, but in part it is a reaction to Gove's definition of free schools.
The list is interesting. The Third University, for example, aims to deliver #coffeelols [see me in the pub for an explanation] and to be the third best university in Leicester. Maybe it's radical. Maybe it is a piss-take. Maybe it is an outlet for some people in Leicester. Maybe it is educational. Maybe it is what you want it to be. Is it really anarchist? Maybe it needs to be kettled first, so we find out.
I like David's suggestion of a symposium - perhaps a pulling together of these radical projects/forms.
In solidarity.
R.
From: ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org
[mailto:ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org] On Behalf Of David Young
Sent: 26 September 2011 07:29
To: Amsler, Sarah; ssc at lists.aktivix.org
Subject: Re: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
Dear Sarah,
Thanks for sharing these texts and your thoughts around this central issue.
On the idea of bringing people together, I think this is an excellent suggestion, and is in fact what one such "alternative education" project is attempting to do in London next month. Dougald Hine's "University Project" is holding a "Universities Past and Future" event at the Hub in Westminster from 14th - 16th October. More here:
http://univproject.pbworks.com/w/page/45692087/The%20University%20Projec
t
That said, it may be that we, the SSC, consider hosting a similar event to discuss, as you suggest, the politics and pedagogies of forms of alternative education.
Thanks,
David.
On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 10:58 PM, Amsler, Sarah <S.S.AMSLER at aston.ac.uk>
wrote:
Dear all,
I came across the two texts below and would be interested in discussing them with anyone also interested. I think they offer a way into some pressing questions about major concepts (freeness and freedom, radicalism, anarchistic politics, etc.) that are being both materialised in practice and called into question. It might be an interesting exercise, for example, to try to formulate responses to some of the (perhaps rhetorically framed) questions in the second.
Sociological Imagination's working list of 'radical education projects'
in the UK:
http://sociologicalimagination.org/a-work-in-progress
Andrew Taggart's critical questioning of the above forms, as particularly read:
http://andrewjtaggart.com/2011/09/19/on-the-other-side-of-radical-educat
ion-lies-wisdom-an-exhortation-or-on-the-question-whether-really-free-is
-really-good/
After spending a second weekend working with the people of the Free University of Liverpool (to whom I will send a copy of this message), I am clearer that there is certainly a moment of emergence with these different projects, which have been developing for a little (or long) while, all coming into some serious material form but often autonomously from each other. I'd like to think about the place of this in history, the context of this historical moment and the forms of politics and pedagogies being developed -- and whether or not they really are all characterised by a 'shared ethos of anarchism' (an argument which I do not entirely agree with) it seems like a wider conversation to have on the radar. I have had some thoughts about at some point in the reasonably near future bringing people involved in these different projects/spaces together to share experiences and imaginaries?
Best,
Sarah
Dr Sarah S Amsler
Lecturer in Sociology
Aston University
Birmingham, B4 7ET, UK
+44 (0) 121 204 3072 <tel:%2B44%20%280%29%20121%20204%203072>
s.s.amsler at aston.ac.uk
Campaign for the Public University: http://publicuniversity.org.uk
_______________________________________________
SSC mailing list
SSC at lists.aktivix.org
https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/ssc
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SSC at lists.aktivix.org
https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/ssc
End of SSC Digest, Vol 9, Issue 17
**********************************
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 10:32:13 +0100
From: Andre Pusey <gyap at leeds.ac.uk>
To: "Amsler, Sarah" <S.S.AMSLER at aston.ac.uk>, "ssc at lists.aktivix.org"
<ssc at lists.aktivix.org>
Subject: Re: [SSC] SSC Digest, Vol 9, Issue 17
Message-ID:
<03FEE575BFE70B4AA3BB5014DC59648B01888B80DCF1 at HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi all,
Not had time to read the articles at the links Sarah provided yet, but am definitely interested in some kind of symposium/mapping event for similar projects. As I've mentioned on the list before, the Really Open University is about to open a space for six months to host a variety of events and hopefully walk the line between a social centre and a more dedicated space like the SSC. We could also offer that space as a host venue perhaps.
I have recently been put in contact with a PhD student and Leicester Uni who is part of the edu-factory collective and is doing some kind of pan-European mapping along the same lines. I have invited him to speak in Leeds about his work, date tbc.
Best,
Andre
-----Original Message-----
From: ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org [mailto:ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org] On Behalf Of Amsler, Sarah
Sent: 26 September 2011 10:13
To: ssc at lists.aktivix.org
Subject: Re: [SSC] SSC Digest, Vol 9, Issue 17
Many thanks to David and Richard.
I've seen the University Project and am unfortunately already committed, but agree that this sort of thing is already in motion and it would be really useful to have some sense of what happens there. Is anyone from the SSC going?
I entirely agree with Richard -- caution about what seems to be really little and/or flawed analysis, both in the 'list' and in the critique of 'the list'. I thought in that sense it would make a good talking point.
Perhaps we can talk about a mapping/symposium/whatever at the next meeting?
S
-----Original Message-----
From: ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org [mailto:ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org] On Behalf Of ssc-request at lists.aktivix.org
Sent: 26 September 2011 08:56
To: ssc at lists.aktivix.org
Subject: SSC Digest, Vol 9, Issue 17
Send SSC mailing list submissions to
ssc at lists.aktivix.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/ssc
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
ssc-request at lists.aktivix.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
ssc-owner at lists.aktivix.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of SSC digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Maps and politics of 'radical education projects' (Amsler, Sarah)
2. Re: Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
(David Young)
3. Re: Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
(Richard Hall)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 21:58:32 +0000
From: "Amsler, Sarah" <S.S.AMSLER at aston.ac.uk>
To: "ssc at lists.aktivix.org" <ssc at lists.aktivix.org>
Subject: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
Message-ID:
<9774754FC22DE74C9E03756E9706CD44027CFD at exch-mb-l4-02.campus.aston.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear all,
I came across the two texts below and would be interested in discussing them with anyone also interested. I think they offer a way into some pressing questions about major concepts (freeness and freedom, radicalism, anarchistic politics, etc.) that are being both materialised in practice and called into question. It might be an interesting exercise, for example, to try to formulate responses to some of the (perhaps rhetorically framed) questions in the second.
Sociological Imagination's working list of 'radical education projects' in the UK:
http://sociologicalimagination.org/a-work-in-progress
Andrew Taggart's critical questioning of the above forms, as particularly read:
http://andrewjtaggart.com/2011/09/19/on-the-other-side-of-radical-education-lies-wisdom-an-exhortation-or-on-the-question-whether-really-free-is-really-good/
After spending a second weekend working with the people of the Free University of Liverpool (to whom I will send a copy of this message), I am clearer that there is certainly a moment of emergence with these different projects, which have been developing for a little (or long) while, all coming into some serious material form but often autonomously from each other. I'd like to think about the place of this in history, the context of this historical moment and the forms of politics and pedagogies being developed -- and whether or not they really are all characterised by a 'shared ethos of anarchism' (an argument which I do not entirely agree with) it seems like a wider conversation to have on the radar. I have had some thoughts about at some point in the reasonably near future bringing people involved in these different projects/spaces together to share experiences and imaginaries?
Best,
Sarah
Dr Sarah S Amsler
Lecturer in Sociology
Aston University
Birmingham, B4 7ET, UK
+44 (0) 121 204 3072
s.s.amsler at aston.ac.uk
Campaign for the Public University: http://publicuniversity.org.uk
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 07:28:48 +0100
From: David Young <lostmoya at gmail.com>
To: "Amsler, Sarah" <S.S.AMSLER at aston.ac.uk>, "ssc at lists.aktivix.org"
<ssc at lists.aktivix.org>
Subject: Re: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
Message-ID:
<CAMrkkaQOxpN7kMf2xT7f7MMx4t76Evna98FqEogD3uFwhPSTXg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dear Sarah,
Thanks for sharing these texts and your thoughts around this central issue.
On the idea of bringing people together, I think this is an excellent suggestion, and is in fact what one such "alternative education" project is attempting to do in London next month. Dougald Hine's "University Project"
is holding a "Universities Past and Future" event at the Hub in Westminster from 14th - 16th October. More here:
http://univproject.pbworks.com/w/page/45692087/The%20University%20Project
That said, it may be that we, the SSC, consider hosting a similar event to discuss, as you suggest, the politics and pedagogies of forms of alternative education.
Thanks,
David.
On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 10:58 PM, Amsler, Sarah <S.S.AMSLER at aston.ac.uk>wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I came across the two texts below and would be interested in
> discussing them with anyone also interested. I think they offer a way
> into some pressing questions about major concepts (freeness and
> freedom, radicalism, anarchistic politics, etc.) that are being both
> materialised in practice and called into question. It might be an
> interesting exercise, for example, to try to formulate responses to
> some of the (perhaps rhetorically framed) questions in the second.
>
> Sociological Imagination's working list of 'radical education
> projects' in the UK:
> http://sociologicalimagination.org/a-work-in-progress
>
> Andrew Taggart's critical questioning of the above forms, as
> particularly
> read:
>
> http://andrewjtaggart.com/2011/09/19/on-the-other-side-of-radical-educ
> ation-lies-wisdom-an-exhortation-or-on-the-question-whether-really-fre
> e-is-really-good/
>
> After spending a second weekend working with the people of the Free
> University of Liverpool (to whom I will send a copy of this message),
> I am clearer that there is certainly a moment of emergence with these
> different projects, which have been developing for a little (or long)
> while, all coming into some serious material form but often
> autonomously from each other. I'd like to think about the place of
> this in history, the context of this historical moment and the forms
> of politics and pedagogies being developed -- and whether or not they
> really are all characterised by a 'shared ethos of anarchism' (an
> argument which I do not entirely agree with) it seems like a wider
> conversation to have on the radar. I have had some thoughts about at
> some point in the reasonably near future bringing people involved in
> these different projects/spaces together to share experiences and imaginaries?
>
> Best,
> Sarah
>
> Dr Sarah S Amsler
> Lecturer in Sociology
> Aston University
> Birmingham, B4 7ET, UK
> +44 (0) 121 204 3072
> s.s.amsler at aston.ac.uk
>
> Campaign for the Public University: http://publicuniversity.org.uk
>
> _______________________________________________
> SSC mailing list
> SSC at lists.aktivix.org
> https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/ssc
>
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 08:55:50 +0100
From: "Richard Hall" <RHall1 at dmu.ac.uk>
To: <ssc at lists.aktivix.org>
Subject: Re: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
Message-ID:
<290C0FAF9352E54EB483CBA4ED12133C05A1047E at artemis.LEC-ADMIN.dmu.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
A note of caution - Taggart has also written for New Public Thinkers at:
http://newpublicthinkers.org/?p=35 I think that this was a weak assessment of the left, based on traditional/orthodox narratives of the state and capital. This lack of an engagement in the history/critique of the left/radical leftist politics is asserted again in the link Sarah posts below, which at a trivial level basis its criticism on freedom, based on the use of "free" (as in monetary value) in the title of these "anarchist" schools. In part, this may be the case, but in part it is a reaction to Gove's definition of free schools.
The list is interesting. The Third University, for example, aims to deliver #coffeelols [see me in the pub for an explanation] and to be the third best university in Leicester. Maybe it's radical. Maybe it is a piss-take. Maybe it is an outlet for some people in Leicester. Maybe it is educational. Maybe it is what you want it to be. Is it really anarchist? Maybe it needs to be kettled first, so we find out.
I like David's suggestion of a symposium - perhaps a pulling together of these radical projects/forms.
In solidarity.
R.
From: ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org
[mailto:ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org] On Behalf Of David Young
Sent: 26 September 2011 07:29
To: Amsler, Sarah; ssc at lists.aktivix.org
Subject: Re: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
Dear Sarah,
Thanks for sharing these texts and your thoughts around this central issue.
On the idea of bringing people together, I think this is an excellent suggestion, and is in fact what one such "alternative education" project is attempting to do in London next month. Dougald Hine's "University Project" is holding a "Universities Past and Future" event at the Hub in Westminster from 14th - 16th October. More here:
http://univproject.pbworks.com/w/page/45692087/The%20University%20Projec
t
That said, it may be that we, the SSC, consider hosting a similar event to discuss, as you suggest, the politics and pedagogies of forms of alternative education.
Thanks,
David.
On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 10:58 PM, Amsler, Sarah <S.S.AMSLER at aston.ac.uk>
wrote:
Dear all,
I came across the two texts below and would be interested in discussing them with anyone also interested. I think they offer a way into some pressing questions about major concepts (freeness and freedom, radicalism, anarchistic politics, etc.) that are being both materialised in practice and called into question. It might be an interesting exercise, for example, to try to formulate responses to some of the (perhaps rhetorically framed) questions in the second.
Sociological Imagination's working list of 'radical education projects'
in the UK:
http://sociologicalimagination.org/a-work-in-progress
Andrew Taggart's critical questioning of the above forms, as particularly read:
http://andrewjtaggart.com/2011/09/19/on-the-other-side-of-radical-educat
ion-lies-wisdom-an-exhortation-or-on-the-question-whether-really-free-is
-really-good/
After spending a second weekend working with the people of the Free University of Liverpool (to whom I will send a copy of this message), I am clearer that there is certainly a moment of emergence with these different projects, which have been developing for a little (or long) while, all coming into some serious material form but often autonomously from each other. I'd like to think about the place of this in history, the context of this historical moment and the forms of politics and pedagogies being developed -- and whether or not they really are all characterised by a 'shared ethos of anarchism' (an argument which I do not entirely agree with) it seems like a wider conversation to have on the radar. I have had some thoughts about at some point in the reasonably near future bringing people involved in these different projects/spaces together to share experiences and imaginaries?
Best,
Sarah
Dr Sarah S Amsler
Lecturer in Sociology
Aston University
Birmingham, B4 7ET, UK
+44 (0) 121 204 3072 <tel:%2B44%20%280%29%20121%20204%203072>
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Campaign for the Public University: http://publicuniversity.org.uk
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