[SSC] SSC Digest, Vol 9, Issue 25

Fri Sep 30 20:01:51 UTC 2011

Agreed, I think an excellent statement and reflection, and clear. The section on how the practices of the SSC are distinguishable from and in contradiction to the free-market economy and 'big society' is really well articulated and has been helpful for me in thinking through some of these questions. The Q&A format seems to work quite well for this particular purpose, and I suspect will be useful in discussions people might have around key points. Glad to know this will soon be widely read.

Best,
Sarah 

Dr Sarah S Amsler
Lecturer in Sociology
Aston University
Birmingham, B4 7ET, UK
+44 (0) 121 204 3072
s.s.amsler at aston.ac.uk

Campaign for the Public University: http://publicuniversity.org.uk
________________________________________
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Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 12:47 PM
To: ssc at lists.aktivix.org
Subject: SSC Digest, Vol 9, Issue 25

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Today's Topics:

   1. Open Democracy Q&A (Joss Winn)
   2. Re: Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
      (Richard Keeble)
   3. Re: Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
      (Richard Hall)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 08:44:22 +0100
From: Joss Winn <joss at josswinn.org>
To: ssc at lists.aktivix.org
Subject: [SSC] Open Democracy Q&A
Message-ID: <B372D7D8-D8D4-4E67-8DFD-36A37EF26FEE at josswinn.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I think this is well articulated and combines a personal view with the general statement we have for the SSC, very well.

Thanks for writing this.

Joss

On 30 Sep 2011, at 05:13, Michael Neary wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I have attached the latest draft of my piece for Open Democracy.
>
> They asked me to write this in a Q and A format, and to give it more 'colour'.
>
> The piece is written from the perspective of my involvement with the Centre, rather than an official statement of the Centre's aims and purposes.
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Mike
>

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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 09:03:17 +0100
From: "Richard Keeble" <rkeeble at lincoln.ac.uk>
To: "Michael Neary" <nearymichael at hotmail.com>,
        <ldavis at oceanfree.net>, "Peter Somerville"
        <PSomerville at post01.lincoln.ac.uk>,     <john.andrews57 at ntlworld.com>
Cc: ssc at lists.aktivix.org
Subject: Re: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
Message-ID:
        <6A2C225F32AD154D9D822F00DF34D8CB02B67E38 at AEXCMS02.network.uni>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

Terrific stuff Mike. Inspirational.
Richard

________________________________

From: ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org on behalf of Michael Neary
Sent: Fri 2011/09/30 5:13
To: ldavis at oceanfree.net; Peter Somerville; john.andrews57 at ntlworld.com
Cc: ssc at lists.aktivix.org
Subject: Re: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'

Dear All,

I have attached the latest draft of my piece for Open Democracy.

They asked me to write this in a Q and A format, and to give it more 'colour'.

The piece is written from the perspective of my involvement with the Centre, rather than an official statement of the Centre's aims and purposes.

Best wishes,

Mike

> From: ldavis at oceanfree.net
> To: psomerville at lincoln.ac.uk; john.andrews57 at ntlworld.com
> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 12:31:38 +0100
> CC: ssc at lists.aktivix.org
> Subject: Re: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
>
> I agree with the points made by Joss in his most recent email.
>
> Peter, perhaps you might consider continuing your discussion about the
> politics of the Conservative Party offline so that list postings focus on
> the many outstanding practical tasks entailed in constructing a sustainable
> Social Science Centre?
>
> Speaking of which, I would just like to applaud the path-breaking work that
> everybody has done thus far on this project. It truly is inspiring.
>
> Laurence
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Somerville
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 11:54 AM
> To: john andrews
> Cc: ssc at lists.aktivix.org
> Subject: Re: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
>
> Glad to hear you agree, john. So do you now accept that the work of
> different members of our group can be contradictory, which in your
> previous email you appeared to reject?
>
> There is a difference between a 'political posture' (actually an ethical
> principle) in favour of mutual respect and democratic decision-making,
> which I advanced in my previous email, and a political posture such as
> 'anarchism' or 'radicalism' or 'revolutionary socialism'.
>
> And by the way, there are sections within the Conservative Party who are
> anarchist in the sense that they believe that the state should move
> entirely out of the way and leave everything to be sorted out by the
> anarchy of the market. Anarchists are not necessarily gangsters but some
> of them are (and were - e.g. Bakunin). I would also distinguish between
> the anarchists outside of government and those (gangsters, perhaps?)
> within government whose project is obviously very different - we would
> probably agree about the latter.
>
> Pete
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: john andrews [mailto:john.andrews57 at ntlworld.com]
> Sent: 28 September 2011 10:21
> To: Peter Somerville
> Subject: Re: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
>
> I absolutely agree that different opinions should not prevent people
> working together - providing they each respect the other's right to
> hold, and express, a different opinion - but such freedom is rare in
> practice and supporting it is, it must be said, a political posture.
>
> john
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Somerville" <psomerville at lincoln.ac.uk>
> To: "john andrews" <john.andrews57 at ntlworld.com>
> Cc: <ssc at lists.aktivix.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 9:31 AM
> Subject: RE: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
>
>
> Goodness, I couldn't disagree more (except for the point about Blair).
> And yet, is that a reason why John and I can't work within the same
> group? I think not.
>
> Pete
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: john andrews [mailto:john.andrews57 at ntlworld.com]
> Sent: 28 September 2011 07:10
> To: Peter Somerville
> Subject: Re: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
>
> Surely the work done by a group of people must be informed by a commonly
> held belief? Otherwise the work done by some of the group will
> inevitably contradict and oppose the work of others in the same group.
> It isn't possible for LSSC to NOT have a political posture of some sort:
> education is a political issue. Peter Sommerville is wrong to suggest
> that 'the market', or anything else associated with existing government
> has anything to do with anarchism; and he's equally wrong to exclude
> 'new' labour from his criticism - much of today's problems were created
> by Blair. Existing government is about gangsterism, not anarchism, and
> has far more in common with Al Capone than Kropotkin, Goldman or
> Chomsky. Tories, 'new' labour...
> they're all the same. I'm not sure what Peter is 'interested in doing',
> but I would be very surprised if it's entirely apolitical, and if it is,
> it's probably not of very much help.
>
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Somerville" <psomerville at lincoln.ac.uk>
> To: "Amsler, Sarah" <S.S.AMSLER at aston.ac.uk>
> Cc: <ssc at lists.aktivix.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 7:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
>
>
> >I sympathise with Andrew Taggart but I don't think the SSC is about
> > political posturing - at least, that's not what I'm interested in
> doing.
> > The 'real' anarchists these days are the Tories, with their 'Big
> > Society' and their unshakeable belief in the anarchy of the market.
> But
> > do we really need to have an agreed 'position' with respect to the
> state
> > and the market? I hope not. Do we even need to have a set of 'common
> > values', which we all sign up to? I think not, except in the broadest
> > possible terms, e.g. mutual respect and democratic decision-making. If
> > we must be judged at all (which I doubt) it should be by what we do
> > rather than by what we believe in.
> >
> > Pete
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org
> > [mailto:ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org] On Behalf Of Amsler, Sarah
> > Sent: 25 September 2011 22:59
> > To: ssc at lists.aktivix.org
> > Subject: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > I came across the two texts below and would be interested in
> discussing
> > them with anyone also interested. I think they offer a way into some
> > pressing questions about major concepts (freeness and freedom,
> > radicalism, anarchistic politics, etc.) that are being both
> materialised
> > in practice and called into question. It might be an interesting
> > exercise, for example, to try to formulate responses to some of the
> > (perhaps rhetorically framed) questions in the second.
> >
> > Sociological Imagination's working list of 'radical education
> projects'
> > in the UK:
> > http://sociologicalimagination.org/a-work-in-progress
> >
> > Andrew Taggart's critical questioning of the above forms, as
> > particularly read:
> >
> http://andrewjtaggart.com/2011/09/19/on-the-other-side-of-radical-educat
> >
> ion-lies-wisdom-an-exhortation-or-on-the-question-whether-really-free-is
> > -really-good/
> >
> > After spending a second weekend working with the people of the Free
> > University of Liverpool (to whom I will send a copy of this message),
> I
> > am clearer that there is certainly a moment of emergence with these
> > different projects, which have been developing for a little (or long)
> > while, all coming into some serious material form but often
> autonomously
> > from each other. I'd like to think about the place of this in history,
> > the context of this historical moment and the forms of politics and
> > pedagogies being developed -- and whether or not they really are all
> > characterised by a 'shared ethos of anarchism' (an argument which I do
> > not entirely agree with) it seems like a wider conversation to have on
> > the radar. I have had some thoughts about at some point in the
> > reasonably near future bringing people involved in these different
> > projects/spaces together to share experiences and imaginaries?
> >
> > Best,
> > Sarah
> >
> > Dr Sarah S Amsler
> > Lecturer in Sociology
> > Aston University
> > Birmingham, B4 7ET, UK
> > +44 (0) 121 204 3072
> > s.s.amsler at aston.ac.uk
> >
> > Campaign for the Public University: http://publicuniversity.org.uk
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > SSC mailing list
> > SSC at lists.aktivix.org
> > https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/ssc
> >
> > The University of Lincoln - a top performer in student satisfaction,
> > enjoying an unrivalled ascent through the University league tables,
> set in
> > a dynamic, research rich and vibrant campus in the heart of a great
> > historic student-friendly city.
> >
> > The information in this e-mail and any attachments may be
> confidential. If
> > you have received this email in error please notify the sender
> immediately
> > and remove it from your system. Do not disclose the contents to
> another
> > person or take copies.
> >
> > Email is not secure and may contain viruses. The University of Lincoln
>
> > makes every effort to ensure email is sent without viruses, but cannot
>
> > guarantee this and recommends recipients take appropriate precautions.
> >
> > The University may monitor email traffic data and content in
> accordance
> > with its policies and English law. Further information can be found
> at:
> > http://www.lincoln.ac.uk/legal.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > SSC mailing list
> > SSC at lists.aktivix.org
> > https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/ssc
>
>
> The University of Lincoln - a top performer in student satisfaction,
> enjoying an unrivalled ascent through the University league tables, set
> in a
> dynamic, research rich and vibrant campus in the heart of a great
> historic
> student-friendly city.
>
> The information in this e-mail and any attachments may be confidential.
> If
> you have received this email in error please notify the sender
> immediately
> and remove it from your system. Do not disclose the contents to another
> person or take copies.
>
> Email is not secure and may contain viruses. The University of Lincoln
> makes
> every effort to ensure email is sent without viruses, but cannot
> guarantee
> this and recommends recipients take appropriate precautions.
>
> The University may monitor email traffic data and content in accordance
> with
> its policies and English law. Further information can be found at:
> http://www.lincoln.ac.uk/legal.
>
>
> The University of Lincoln - a top performer in student satisfaction,
> enjoying an unrivalled ascent through the University league tables, set in a
> dynamic, research rich and vibrant campus in the heart of a great historic
> student-friendly city.
>
> The information in this e-mail and any attachments may be confidential. If
> you have received this email in error please notify the sender immediately
> and remove it from your system. Do not disclose the contents to another
> person or take copies.
>
> Email is not secure and may contain viruses. The University of Lincoln makes
> every effort to ensure email is sent without viruses, but cannot guarantee
> this and recommends recipients take appropriate precautions.
>
> The University may monitor email traffic data and content in accordance with
> its policies and English law. Further information can be found at:
> http://www.lincoln.ac.uk/legal.
>
> _______________________________________________
> SSC mailing list
> SSC at lists.aktivix.org
> https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/ssc
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SSC mailing list
> SSC at lists.aktivix.org
> https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/ssc

The University of Lincoln - a top performer in student satisfaction, enjoying an unrivalled ascent through the University league tables, set in a dynamic, research rich and vibrant campus in the heart of a great historic student-friendly city.

The information in this e-mail and any attachments may be confidential. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender immediately and remove it from your system. Do not disclose the contents to another person or take copies.

Email is not secure and may contain viruses. The University of Lincoln makes every effort to ensure email is sent without viruses, but cannot guarantee this and recommends recipients take appropriate precautions.

The University may monitor email traffic data and content in accordance with its policies and English law. Further information can be found at: http://www.lincoln.ac.uk/legal.

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 12:47:03 +0100
From: "Richard Hall" <RHall1 at dmu.ac.uk>
To: <ssc at lists.aktivix.org>
Subject: Re: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
Message-ID:
        <290C0FAF9352E54EB483CBA4ED12133C05A104FC at artemis.LEC-ADMIN.dmu.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Lovely stuff, Mike. A very nicely articulated mix of the personal and
political.

In solidarity.

Richard.

From: ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org
[mailto:ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org] On Behalf Of Michael Neary
Sent: 30 September 2011 05:13
To: ldavis at oceanfree.net; psomerville at lincoln.ac.uk;
john.andrews57 at ntlworld.com
Cc: ssc at lists.aktivix.org
Subject: Re: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'

Dear All,

I have attached the latest draft of my piece for Open Democracy.

They asked me to write this in a Q and A format, and to give it more
'colour'.

The piece is written from the perspective of my involvement with the
Centre, rather than an official statement of the Centre's aims and
purposes.

Best wishes,

Mike

> From: ldavis at oceanfree.net
> To: psomerville at lincoln.ac.uk; john.andrews57 at ntlworld.com
> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 12:31:38 +0100
> CC: ssc at lists.aktivix.org
> Subject: Re: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
>
> I agree with the points made by Joss in his most recent email.
>
> Peter, perhaps you might consider continuing your discussion about the

> politics of the Conservative Party offline so that list postings focus
on
> the many outstanding practical tasks entailed in constructing a
sustainable
> Social Science Centre?
>
> Speaking of which, I would just like to applaud the path-breaking work
that
> everybody has done thus far on this project. It truly is inspiring.
>
> Laurence
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Somerville
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 11:54 AM
> To: john andrews
> Cc: ssc at lists.aktivix.org
> Subject: Re: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
>
> Glad to hear you agree, john. So do you now accept that the work of
> different members of our group can be contradictory, which in your
> previous email you appeared to reject?
>
> There is a difference between a 'political posture' (actually an
ethical
> principle) in favour of mutual respect and democratic decision-making,
> which I advanced in my previous email, and a political posture such as
> 'anarchism' or 'radicalism' or 'revolutionary socialism'.
>
> And by the way, there are sections within the Conservative Party who
are
> anarchist in the sense that they believe that the state should move
> entirely out of the way and leave everything to be sorted out by the
> anarchy of the market. Anarchists are not necessarily gangsters but
some
> of them are (and were - e.g. Bakunin). I would also distinguish
between
> the anarchists outside of government and those (gangsters, perhaps?)
> within government whose project is obviously very different - we would
> probably agree about the latter.
>
> Pete
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: john andrews [mailto:john.andrews57 at ntlworld.com]
> Sent: 28 September 2011 10:21
> To: Peter Somerville
> Subject: Re: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
>
> I absolutely agree that different opinions should not prevent people
> working together - providing they each respect the other's right to
> hold, and express, a different opinion - but such freedom is rare in
> practice and supporting it is, it must be said, a political posture.
>
> john
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Somerville" <psomerville at lincoln.ac.uk>
> To: "john andrews" <john.andrews57 at ntlworld.com>
> Cc: <ssc at lists.aktivix.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 9:31 AM
> Subject: RE: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
>
>
> Goodness, I couldn't disagree more (except for the point about Blair).
> And yet, is that a reason why John and I can't work within the same
> group? I think not.
>
> Pete
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: john andrews [mailto:john.andrews57 at ntlworld.com]
> Sent: 28 September 2011 07:10
> To: Peter Somerville
> Subject: Re: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
>
> Surely the work done by a group of people must be informed by a
commonly
> held belief? Otherwise the work done by some of the group will
> inevitably contradict and oppose the work of others in the same group.
> It isn't possible for LSSC to NOT have a political posture of some
sort:
> education is a political issue. Peter Sommerville is wrong to suggest
> that 'the market', or anything else associated with existing
government
> has anything to do with anarchism; and he's equally wrong to exclude
> 'new' labour from his criticism - much of today's problems were
created
> by Blair. Existing government is about gangsterism, not anarchism, and
> has far more in common with Al Capone than Kropotkin, Goldman or
> Chomsky. Tories, 'new' labour...
> they're all the same. I'm not sure what Peter is 'interested in
doing',
> but I would be very surprised if it's entirely apolitical, and if it
is,
> it's probably not of very much help.
>
> John
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Somerville" <psomerville at lincoln.ac.uk>
> To: "Amsler, Sarah" <S.S.AMSLER at aston.ac.uk>
> Cc: <ssc at lists.aktivix.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 7:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
>
>
> >I sympathise with Andrew Taggart but I don't think the SSC is about
> > political posturing - at least, that's not what I'm interested in
> doing.
> > The 'real' anarchists these days are the Tories, with their 'Big
> > Society' and their unshakeable belief in the anarchy of the market.
> But
> > do we really need to have an agreed 'position' with respect to the
> state
> > and the market? I hope not. Do we even need to have a set of 'common
> > values', which we all sign up to? I think not, except in the
broadest
> > possible terms, e.g. mutual respect and democratic decision-making.
If
> > we must be judged at all (which I doubt) it should be by what we do
> > rather than by what we believe in.
> >
> > Pete
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org
> > [mailto:ssc-bounces at lists.aktivix.org] On Behalf Of Amsler, Sarah
> > Sent: 25 September 2011 22:59
> > To: ssc at lists.aktivix.org
> > Subject: [SSC] Maps and politics of 'radical education projects'
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > I came across the two texts below and would be interested in
> discussing
> > them with anyone also interested. I think they offer a way into some
> > pressing questions about major concepts (freeness and freedom,
> > radicalism, anarchistic politics, etc.) that are being both
> materialised
> > in practice and called into question. It might be an interesting
> > exercise, for example, to try to formulate responses to some of the
> > (perhaps rhetorically framed) questions in the second.
> >
> > Sociological Imagination's working list of 'radical education
> projects'
> > in the UK:
> > http://sociologicalimagination.org/a-work-in-progress
> >
> > Andrew Taggart's critical questioning of the above forms, as
> > particularly read:
> >
>
http://andrewjtaggart.com/2011/09/19/on-the-other-side-of-radical-educat
> >
>
ion-lies-wisdom-an-exhortation-or-on-the-question-whether-really-free-is
> > -really-good/
> >
> > After spending a second weekend working with the people of the Free
> > University of Liverpool (to whom I will send a copy of this
message),
> I
> > am clearer that there is certainly a moment of emergence with these
> > different projects, which have been developing for a little (or
long)
> > while, all coming into some serious material form but often
> autonomously
> > from each other. I'd like to think about the place of this in
history,
> > the context of this historical moment and the forms of politics and
> > pedagogies being developed -- and whether or not they really are all
> > characterised by a 'shared ethos of anarchism' (an argument which I
do
> > not entirely agree with) it seems like a wider conversation to have
on
> > the radar. I have had some thoughts about at some point in the
> > reasonably near future bringing people involved in these different
> > projects/spaces together to share experiences and imaginaries?
> >
> > Best,
> > Sarah
> >
> > Dr Sarah S Amsler
> > Lecturer in Sociology
> > Aston University
> > Birmingham, B4 7ET, UK
> > +44 (0) 121 204 3072
> > s.s.amsler at aston.ac.uk
> >
> > Campaign for the Public University: http://publicuniversity.org.uk
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > SSC mailing list
> > SSC at lists.aktivix.org
> > https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/ssc
> >
> > The University of Lincoln - a top performer in student satisfaction,
> > enjoying an unrivalled ascent through the University league tables,
> set in
> > a dynamic, research rich and vibrant campus in the heart of a great
> > historic student-friendly city.
> >
> > The information in this e-mail and any attachments may be
> confidential. If
> > you have received this email in error please notify the sender
> immediately
> > and remove it from your system. Do not disclose the contents to
> another
> > person or take copies.
> >
> > Email is not secure and may contain viruses. The University of
Lincoln
>
> > makes every effort to ensure email is sent without viruses, but
cannot
>
> > guarantee this and recommends recipients take appropriate
precautions.
> >
> > The University may monitor email traffic data and content in
> accordance
> > with its policies and English law. Further information can be found
> at:
> > http://www.lincoln.ac.uk/legal.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > SSC mailing list
> > SSC at lists.aktivix.org
> > https://lists.aktivix.org/mailman/listinfo/ssc
>
>
> The University of Lincoln - a top performer in student satisfaction,
> enjoying an unrivalled ascent through the University league tables,
set
> in a
> dynamic, research rich and vibrant campus in the heart of a great
> historic
> student-friendly city.
>
> The information in this e-mail and any attachments may be
confidential.
> If
> you have received this email in error please notify the sender
> immediately
> and remove it from your system. Do not disclose the contents to
another
> person or take copies.
>
> Email is not secure and may contain viruses. The University of Lincoln
> makes
> every effort to ensure email is sent without viruses, but cannot
> guarantee
> this and recommends recipients take appropriate precautions.
>
> The University may monitor email traffic data and content in
accordance
> with
> its policies and English law. Further information can be found at:
> http://www.lincoln.ac.uk/legal.
>
>
> The University of Lincoln - a top performer in student satisfaction,
> enjoying an unrivalled ascent through the University league tables,
set in a
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End of SSC Digest, Vol 9, Issue 25
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