[Cc-webedit] swoop map

Emily James emily at emily-james.com
Tue Sep 29 15:43:07 BST 2009 

For what it's worth, I agree with Jon and Alistair on this one.

Looking at the map on-line is very, very flimsy evidence, and I would be
very surprised if it were pursued. Particularly as people are likely to give
them more to work with, evidence wise, on the day!

I can see that JimDog's concerns are totaly valid, but if it's not possible
to deal with it in time, it shouldn't hold people back in this case.

E

2009/9/29 alistair alexander <alistair at ali303.net>

> i agree with that - if people are worried we can have a disclaimer on the
> map or the page before, but, as far as i'm aware, there is nothing illegal
> about looking at a map.
>
> alistair
>
> 2009/9/29 Jon Leighton <j at jonathanleighton.com>
>
> Hi all,
>>
>> For what it's worth, I think the benefit of doing this with Google maps
>> outweighs the risk. The whole swoop thing is being done very very
>> publicly, and I don't think looking at a map for a public event is
>> sufficient evidence to prosecute somebody. Even if they somehow got hold
>> of the IPs, they'd have to prove that the relevant individual was
>> physically sitting in front of the computer with that IP address.
>>
>> Basically, I think doing it in a way whereby IPs aren't logged would be
>> nice, but it looks like that isn't possible, and I think we should just
>> do it anyway.
>>
>> Understand this is controversial - maybe we can have a chat about this
>> specifically and security provisions in general at the gathering.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jon
>>
>> On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 12:15 +0100, david at vannen.com wrote:
>> > Hosting the map on our own server is outside my knowledge, and unlikely
>> to
>> > be inside my knowledge in the timeframe, so I'll have to bow out.
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Carl van Tonder" <carl at supervacuo.com>
>> > To: <david at vannen.com>; <cc-webedit at lists.aktivix.org>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:08 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [Cc-webedit] swoop map
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > My personal preference would be for openstreetmap (or NASA's satellite
>> > images) through OpenLayers due to the proprietary nature of Google as a
>> > service.
>> >
>> > Sadly, both Google and OpenLayers have the same problem - requests for
>> map
>> > images of any line are (fairly sensibly from a performance point of
>> view)
>> > all made through Javascript - i.e. directly to the map provider. This
>> means
>> > that we have no control over access logs. One way around this would be
>> to
>> > host our own map image (either Google's or someone else's) and serve it
>> > ourselves, accessing it through OpenLayers. A custom map layer like this
>> is
>> > definitely possible, and would probably address our security issues,
>> > although I'm afraid that having suggested this I don't myself have time
>> to
>> > do this early enough so as to be useful for the Swoop.
>> >
>> > It's not that much work (or technically complex) though, and _could_ be
>> less
>> > work than an illustrated map.
>> >
>> > Hope this makes some sort of sense.
>> >
>> > Coal and riots,
>> > Carl
>> >
>> > -original message-
>> > Subject: Re: [Cc-webedit] swoop map
>> > From: <david at vannen.com>
>> > Date: 29/09/2009 5:31 am
>> >
>> > <Ah, oops, that was a mis-type, didn't mean to send as-is.>
>> >
>> > Is there another service we can use, given the time frame?
>> >
>> > Is there a way of using Google maps without disclosing IP addesses, etc?
>> > Perhaps a way of Onion-Routing the map?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: <david at vannen.com>
>> > To: <cc-webedit at lists.aktivix.org>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 4:59 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [Cc-webedit] swoop map
>> >
>> >
>> > >
>> > > I trust Jim Dog's judgemet re. security issues. Hence, as nice as I
>> > > believe a Google map may be, I can't go ahead if he thinks it's a
>> risk.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: <theinnercityhippy at riseup.net>
>> > > To: <cc-webedit at lists.aktivix.org>
>> > > Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 5:25 PM
>> > > Subject: Re: [Cc-webedit] swoop map
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >>
>> > >> keep in mind that we need to host the map on our own server, ideally
>> only
>> > >> accessible with an ssl connection and we need to avoid storing any
>> cookie
>> > >> info from the users of this page.
>> > >>
>> > >> An external service like google maps really isn't suitable for this
>> > >> unless the map request is rerouted as coming from our server as we
>> run
>> > >> the risk of users being identified by ip and winding up with so
>> called
>> > >> evidence of conspiricy which we need to guard against. Remember,
>> people
>> > >> need to trust that we have thought of this and are taking steps to
>> > >> minimise the risk or it could backfire badly.
>> > >>
>> > >> If the maps are stored and accessed from our server, we have the
>> removeip
>> > >> apache mod running so it will look like all the requests have come
>> from
>> > >> the localhost in the unlikely event of these application logs being
>> > >> seized
>> > >> (though ideally they should be pointed at /dev/null )
>> > >>
>> > >> feel free to message me off list if you need more advice
>> > >>
>> > >> solidarity
>> > >>
>> > >> jimdog
>> > >>
>> > >>> Sounds great David, go for it.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I look forward to seeing the results :)
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Jon
>> > >>>
>> > >>> On Sun, 2009-09-27 at 21:01 +0100, david at vannen.com wrote:
>> > >>>> Unless somebody who's really in touch with with Google Maps would
>> > >>>> rather do it, I can take this on, and have it done by Tuesday eve.
>> the
>> > >>>> basic map is a quick job, the overlays a bit longer.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> I agree about the need for a printable map.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> DV
>> > >>>>         ----- Original Message -----
>> > >>>>         From: Alistair Alexander
>> > >>>>         To: cc-webedit at lists.aktivix.org
>> > >>>>         Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 8:39 PM
>> > >>>>         Subject: [Cc-webedit] swoop map
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>         There's been a request for an interactive map of the Swoop
>> to
>> > >>>>         be put online.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>         My understanding is that it would need to be more than a
>> > >>>>         google map and would need to show:
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>               * Ratcliffe and surrounding area
>> > >>>>               * Bloc starting points with big arrows showing
>> suggested
>> > >>>>                 routes
>> > >>>>               * Mouseover boxes detailing points of interest
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>         In the time available, it seems like a pretty tall order -
>> do
>> > >>>>         we know any web designer who might be able to do this (very
>> > >>>>         quickly)?
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>         I'd suggest we also need a PDF map for printing out.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>         Alistair
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
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